Only as a brief aside (don't have the timestamp right now) to talking about Smalltalk, which he mostly discusses to argue that Smalltalk was not different from C++ in seeking (most of the time) to model programs in terms of static hierarchies (according to the primary source documentation from the time of Smalltalk's design):

> And another thing is if you look at the other branch,

> the branch that I'm not really covering very much

> in this talk, because again,

> we don't program in small talk these days, right?

> The closest thing you would get

> is maybe something like Objective-C.

> If there's some people out there using Objective-C,

> you know, like Apple was using that for a little while,

> so Objective-C kind of came

> from a small talk background as well.

Objective-C is basically Smalltalk retrofitted onto C, even more than C++ was Simula retrofitted onto C (before C++ gained template metaprogramming and more modern paradigms), so it makes sense that Muratori doesn't go much into it, given that he doesn't discuss Smalltalk much.