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Comment by PaulHoule | Hacker News Reader

For a long time Consumer Reports has ranked cars as Japanese > American >> European, European cars have some luxury cachet but if you want a car that starts when you turn the key look elsewhere. American cars came a long way since the 1970s when they really were trash.

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Consumer Reports currently has Audi and BMW ahead of any American manufacturer.

Brand average reliability is tricky though, on their 100-point scale, their top manufacturer (Subaru) has models that range from 38-98.

Looking at the model breakdown... I kinda suspect they don’t really have enough datapoints - VW’s reliability only includes 3 models (the Tiguan, ID.4 and TAOS) - Ford has a 25-point difference between the Escape and Maverick hybrids that share the same engine/powertrain (I can’t think of any reason why the Maverick would actually be notably more reliable than the Escape unless the PHEV escape is dragging down weighted reliability by that much over the mild hybrid), etc.

"European" cars are not really a category. French/Italian/Spanish cars are very different from German/Volvo, and even these groupings are a stretch. Then you have Dacia too, and I have no idea where to even put it. Plus you have some luxury British cars, which are again veery different.

In-group std is greater than between-group std.

> Spanish cars are very different from German

The only spanish car maker is SEAT and it's part of VAG group. SEAT are more expensive than Skoda, but cheaper than Audi.

And using the country card with these automaker corporations is very tricky, because they have factories everywhere. You can buy an Audi made in Spain or a VW made in Slovakia.

In the USA (where Consumer Reports exists), we don’t have any French or Spanish brands. Italian brands are only exotics and couple near-luxury brands from Stellantis.

To a USAian, “European Brand” means something from Germany or Scandinavia. If you mean a Ferrari or Lamborghini, you say that name.

There's Fiat, an Italian brand that I think of as terribly downmarket. I think it's part of Stellantis and I think if you see Stellantis coming you're supposed to run, not walk away -- I guess Chrysler is still part of that, but Chrysler is also far worse than Ford and GM.

As for Ferrari and Lamborghini it doesn't matter what Consumer Reports thinks.

Fair enough but its a bit like saying American cities are very cold in winter, and by American cities I mean New York cos thats where most flights go.

Theres a lot more cities in the US and a lot more "European" cars than German/Swedish.

>"European" cars are not really a category. /Spanish cars are very different from German/Volvo

VWAG owns the largest Spanish car maker, Seat/Cupra. 100% of cars Seat/Cupra sells are VW derivatives. Whatever you imagine the difference between Spanish cars and German cars to be, it is not real.

>French/Italian

Renault is a very different company then Stellantis (Fiat, Citroen, Peugeot).

What you should compare is the parent company making these cars.

>Plus you have some luxury British cars, which are again veery different.

Lotus is a Geely brand, just like Volvo is a Geely brand, some of their cars are on the same platform. Fiat, Citroen, Peugeot are Stellantis brands.

Pretty good case for why Consumer Reports is not very useful anymore https://youtu.be/WicesuUvTXo

The relative ranking may hold, but the problem nowadays is all cars are unreliable due to software. Sure a car letting you down because the engine is blown up is bad, but a car failing unpredictably in the middle of nowhere due to software issue a pretty serious issue to. I’m not sure Japanese are better on this.

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