How Higher education failed America's poor | Hacker News Reader

How Higher education failed America's poor

washingtonpost.com

11 pointspseudolus10 comments

I wouldn't blame Higher Ed for that failure here in the US. Periods of shaky economy, the (often widely-denied) US class system, and the here-today, gone-tomorrow results of Congressional help are bigger culprits.

Choosing a 4-year school over a 2-year one means losing 2 more years of employment. To a young adult that can't afford (or their family can't) that sacrifice, a 2-year makes a lot of sense.

There was a time (1970-80) when work-study programs earning decent minimum-wages helped lower that barrier. But over time, the minimum wages failed to go up ... and the once widely-available scholarships were not renewed.

On top of that, the 4-year degree can make it harder to find employment ... especially in rural areas. Not only are there fewer rural jobs for 4-year grads, but if potential employers see that 4-year, they may figure you'll run out on them ASAP.

You could get a 2-year, get a job and get stabilized and then go back for two more years. If you have no or few kids, that might be a safer route. And by that time, you'll have more reasons to pick the right major.

> There was a time (1970-80) when work-study programs earning decent minimum-wages helped lower that barrier. But over time, the minimum wages failed to go up ... and the once widely-available scholarships were not renewed.

I would note here that -- in addition to the minimum wage not increasing -- the cost of higher education increased substantially faster than inflation or median wage.

Yes. And I'd note that the cost increased while the number of administrators in many schools... not the number of professors ... was steadily on the rise.

Rather like the large gains in weight many people experienced in that same period.

It would be interesting to see this argument stratified by some measure of college preparedness like test scores, or admission to a 4yr school.

If -- as the article seems to imply -- most of the effect is explained by what schools and programs poorer students are pathed into, it seems plausible that the failing is at the point of pathing (primary/secondary education).

https://archive.ph/SQY8k

So the poor are attending more community colleges than 4 year universities.

But considering the costs, is this even possible or desirable to reverse?

The article says we should make it cheaper, but that's a pretty big demand.

>In the 20th century, rich and poor students were equally likely to get humanities degrees. Today, a majority of humanities students are poor.

That's curious as my local community colleges don't have much in the way of big humanities programs. Do others?

> For example, engineering schools often have separate applications, and they require higher test scores and grade point averages. Some “STEM” programs also expect students to arrive having completed prerequisite coursework — the kind more readily available to wealthy students in well-resourced high schools.

I remember this being the case even when I went to school. STEM type programs (we didn't call them that then) had this track that if you weren't already planning to be in you were discouraged from applying / were told you'd probably fail. There was no real way to be a late bloomer and work your way in.

VOC Rehab only supports community colleges, unless you get a scholarship to pay for everything. I went to UM Rolla in 1986-1987 with a student loan, but ran out of money to live on. So I returned home and attended a community college while living with my parents. I started working in the Computer Lab while earning an IT degree and got a couple jobs, but I was too busy working to earn a Bachelor's degree. My Associates was good enough until the 1999 Dotcom bust, where they raised the degree to a bachelors to do my job. I returned for a Bachelor's at the University of Phoenix in 2005. But I became disabled due to a mental illness in 2003 and could not work a job.

I paid off my student loans, but college was expensive. I applied for 100+ scholarships and won none of them. I came from a middle-class family where my father was a phone installer for AT&T/SWB and barely made enough to make ends meet with three children and a wife. I learned BASIC on a Commodore 64 I shared with my two brothers, and got into BBSing with a VICMODEM 300 Baud MODEM.

Now there are Hacker Bootcamps to learn how to code without a STEM degree.

> I came from a middle-class family where my father was a phone installer for AT&T/SWB and barely made enough to make ends meet with three children and a wife

I don't want to be disrespectful here, but this seems like a contradiction in terms. Can you explain how you'd define "middle-class"?

I believe my situation was similar to GP's: family on the lower end of middle class, and enough younger siblings to make it a stretch.

I was accepted to a reasonably prestigious university, but ran out of money after the first semester, so I wound up coming home and finishing my degree at a state school.

It's also important to note that the student loan system back then was very different: different guarantors, and non-infinite money.

Yes, that was the case, lower-middle-class, and three children with a wife on my father's salary.

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