The year of peak might and magic | Hacker News Reader

The year of peak might and magic

filfre.net

127 pointscybersoyuz65 comments

I keep a Windows 2000 virtual machine with no network access around just to occasionally play HOMM 3.

There aren't many games from that era that are as infinitely replayable. Command and Conquer: Yuri's Revenge and Starcraft come to mind.

> I keep a Windows 2000 virtual machine with no network access around just to occasionally play HOMM 3.

according to wiki there should be an easier way:

Platform(s) Windows, Macintosh, Linux (PowerPC/x86), iOS, Android

Release March 3, 1999

I would be quite surprised if a modern Linux could run the original binary without gymnastics. Windows is the only OS which prioritizes backwards compatibility.

The game isn't stable under modern versions of Windows.

You're probably right about the native version, but the Windows version works fine: https://www.protondb.com/app/297000?device=pc

Heh. Which is why the only stable Linux ABI is Win32.

And even then not always. For example, Rome 2 Total War crashes in Proton, but works just fine on actual Windows.

That report is for the fixed version of HOMM 3 from GOG, not the original version of the game.

there's a linux version off archive.org I managed to get running last year. this is a perfect problem for a flatpak to solve however.

The Windows version is no longer compatible with modern Windows versions.

The Mac version (I own both) was for PowerPC Macs.

I've already paid for it a third time, as part of a HOMM box set for Windows.

Good Old Games has produced a fixed version, so I could pay for it a fourth time, but running it in the VM still works.

> Good Old Games has produced a fixed version, so I could pay for it a fourth time

It probably wouldn't cost more than $1, given that you're clearly willing to wait for a sale.

Advertised price right now is $5 with "lowest price in the last 30 days" of $2.50. The bundle of all 8 expansion campaigns shows the same current and recent pricing.

https://vcmi.eu/

There is also a great remake with a new engine, that of course requires the original assets.

Try playing the HD add-on with the HotA (horn of the abyss) espansion! There are 2 new factions now which are well balanced.

And, they look beautiful.

Its wonderful what a dedicated community can achieve. Kudos to all of them!

TIP: if you get the game on GOG. It will run just fine in any modern Windows setup (even MAC OS i believe)

Another vote for the Horn of the Abyss! It is a community pack that keeps the HOMM3 gameplay spirit but adds a lot of minor UI enhancements fixing various pain points.

And if you like insanely complex scenarios, check out HotA user maps on maps4heroes.

Yuri's Revenge never gets old - it's just the right balance of RTS with a bit more of an arcadey feel. Sadly I missed the original Starcraft train (finished Starcraft II), but one of these days I'm going to sit down and work my way through it.

The story still holds up really well. Plus if you can't deal with the classic graphics there is StarCraft remastered.

Back then I was crazy about the story of Starcraft and I thought that was the best of the RTS games. I used to dip into the level editor too but it was kinda limited, missing some of the scripts Blizzard used in the expansion.

By pure coincidence, both Starcraft 2's writers and /me believed that Kerrigan should be brought back to her human form in Starcraft 2 :)

>There aren't many games from that era that are as infinitely replayable.

I think A lot of games from that era were infinitely replayable. Diablo, Sim City. It really is the case we dont made them like that any more. The amount of small details that goes into it. Not just the games itself, but also the packaging, manual and things surrounding.

It is somewhat strange that group of people grow up and start producing in the 90s still have the attention to detail mind set. This is mostly gone in modern Gen Z generation.

The market has evolved, thats true but you have whole indie scene which is close to those values. Ie for management strategies there is Factorio.

Love to see some Might and Magic articles.

Earlier this year I found a boxed copy of Might and Magic IV: Clouds of Xeen on Marketplace. Everything is in the box and it's all pristine. It goes very nicely with my boxed copy of Might and Magic III that I bought (used!) to play on my first computer, my 386.

I think I'm going to get these maps framed.

As a side (but arguably related) topic:

Is there any webpage or book or any media that analyzes the technical aspects of a game? Take HOMM3 as an example -- what are the most difficult technical problems and how did the developers solve them? What are the algorithms that run aspects of the game (e.g. how is path-finding implemented? How is AI implemented?)? What is the architecture of the engine? Does it have a scripting engine and if so how is it implemented?

I like post-mortems but mostly are given by designers, directors, not programmers -- and even by programmers they did not go very deep like "John Carmack" type deep. The "Black books" by Fabien came into mind but these are few and far between.

I don't think anything in the Might and Magic series was ever a serious technological advancement on par with id software's early work.

They're some of the greatest games ever made, but it's the design, not the code.

Come to think of it, same thing goes for most games that make the greatest game lists.

That being said there are a couple technological marvels out there (maybe just not on greatest game lists). Teardown, for instance, has an unfathomable number of voxels that make everything in the world simulated.

I don't disagree, but usually there are some interesting technical problems, e.g. for Starcraft: https://www.codeofhonor.com/blog/tough-times-on-the-road-to-...

Warren Robinett wrote an interesting one on Atari VCS Adventure http://www.warrenrobinett.com/inventing_adventure/

It doesn't go super deep, he had a more technical book in the works but I haven't heard any updates about it for a while: http://www.warrenrobinett.com/ecv/annotated_adventure_toc/in...

Thanks! This looks really interesting from retro-programming perspective.

Tim Cain on YouTube has been posting some technical details of the original Fallout implementation.

You're probably looking for something more detailed and implementation-focused, but Ars Technica had a series of 10 minute videos where they interviewed developers about technical challenges. E.g. they had one on pathfinding and CD video in second generation Westwood RTS games [1]

[1] https://youtube.com/watch?v=S-VAL7Epn3o

Check out "Game Programming Patterns" by Robert Nystrom and the GDC Vault for technical deep-dives. For HOMM specifically, the VCMI project (open-source HOMM3 engine) has source code that reveals implementation details like their A* pathfinding and combat AI systems.

Thanks. I recalled a series of books called "Game Programming Gems", guess those are good too.

BTW absolutely love VCMI although I never managed to run it without error :/

Astrologers proclaim a week of HOMM3 appreciation posts.

What I wouldn't give for a new Heroes of Might and Magic game with the pixel art style of HOMM2 and the gameplay mechanics of HOMM3...

Not exactly what you asked for but https://store.steampowered.com/app/867210/Songs_of_Conquest/ is somewhat close.

I played the campaign and it scratched the itch

The SsethTzeentach review is something else

Aren't there mods out there for HOMM3 to make it look like HOMM2?

edit: found one called "The Succession Wars"

https://heroes3wog.net/the-succession-wars/

One thing I loved about HOMM 3 was that even with just one computer you could take turns and get a game going with friends. Not many games offered that unless they were based on board games

Hotseat was more common back then I think with turn-based games

Just gotta throw some shine to "Battle for Wesnoth" - https://www.wesnoth.org/

Not exactly the same, but a well-deserving open source cousin.

Turn based, strategy, lightweight RPG (a-la X-Com with unit leveling, unit permadeath, campaigns, multiplayer, etc)

This title would be clearer if the case were reflected in the title. And significantly clearer still if the name of the game was shown with quotes. What's HN's beef with quotes in the title about? Is it so prone to misuse that we have to lose out on legitimate uses?

I remember, as a kid, seeing the first ad for M&M in a computer journal I read. At the time I was happy playing Ultima and it looked like it was going to be a better ultima, and ordered it. Waiting for the floppy disk to arrive seemed like an eternity and at some point I literally dreamed I was playing the game. The game itself, I barely remember- it wasn't that great, kind of like ultima and wizardry but didn't really improve on either of them significantly.

Me and my friends had really been playing M&M 6&7 in 98/99, such fond memories. We had really high hopes for Ultima 9 - which came out in 99, as it looked so much more modern than the M&M games...nope, a total turd. Think I still have the box somewhere in the attic though, that was probably the most impressive thing about the game.

M&M8 which came out the year after, was good enough though. That's around the time I stopped playing the M&M series.

Ultima IX was so bad that I stopped playing computer games entirely. 3D worlds just never worked for me. All the story immersion and imagination that I’d loved in the games of my childhood seemed to be gone. (I never cared for Doom either, and then all games somehow became Doom.)

The next time I bought a high-end 3D game was over 15 years later. That was Fallout 4. I played 30 minutes and then never returned to it. Uncanny valley graphics and boring first person action — nothing like the original Fallouts 1 and 2 of my memories.

I guess I’ll have to try another AAA PC game in 2030 just to stick to the schedule.

when you try again in 2030, make sure to get Baldur's Gate 3

World of Xeen was an enchanting experience. The interlocking quests in an open exploration world with a party of characters you could custom select with different attribute strengths, the large spells and weapons compendium, and the music just all came together in a way that no other RPG before or since engrossed me.

"By the seventh go-round, this was no longer quite the shock it once was, but series tradition must be served."

To be fair, MM7 was the first time for some of us, and it was quite a shock. What do you mean all the points I put into might and magic are now moot, as the only endgame weapons worth using are blasters?!

I don't even play the game. But I value very highly the artwork, the music, the sounds, the whole atmosphere. The endless autumn forests, the castles, the fairy dragons—they all rightfully belong to a museum of baroque art. A game can be a work of art in itself; HoMM III definitely is.

I remember coming across HoMM around 2008, but the published game was nowhere available near where I lived, so I ended up playing a web based clone[0].

Been playing it for around 17 years, and it is still quite fun.

[0] https://www.lordswm.com/

I believe there is new one coming out closer to HOMM3, called Olden Era. https://unfrozen.studio/games/olden-era/

I did try Songs of Conquest, it was decent

I agree with the author: Heroes II is my favorite of the series, just for the innocent vibe. Also, Heroes IV is underrated. It got bad reviews because it came out buggy, but the bugs were fixed in updates, and of all the HOMM games, it has the best soundtrack.

100% agree, esp. on the soundtrack. I thought I was going crazy when in Witcher 3's Skellige island it started playing the soundtrack from HOMM4. (See Track 14 here: https://youtu.be/F9sG0r_9f4M?t=4400).

> the best soundtrack.

Really hard to say, homm3 soundtrack was a true masterpiece.

I don't know. HoMM2 has some incredible tracks too. And that's despite taking some risks with opera music.

And I fully agree with that! I still listen to HOMM2,3,4 for mood altering. Oh and AOE1,2 and SC1,2

Heroes IV has a bad design. Your hero can be attacked, so you are forced to pick the warrior class to not get oneshot. You can only have 2 classes and one slot is kinda fixed.

I keep seeing might and magic related content, despite never having played it, or even having heard of it until recently! But in the last few months I have been getting the odd YouTube recommendation, or see the occasional Reddit (and now HN) thread.

Why?

Possibly it is the Baader-Meinhof Effect.

Possibly this is a game you will love playing and should check it out. Whether by emulating an ancient DOS machine or by picking up one of the eleven games in the series available on Steam. (https://store.steampowered.com/sale/might-magic/)

If it is the latter case then I am sure some enthusiastic fans of this series will reply to this comment or yours with detailed opinions on which option is the best :)

They’ve been increasing in popularity on twitch recently

HOMM3 is a perfect game. I've gotten people hooked on it in the 2020's. I still have an original CD of the linux port, a lot of nostalgia there

One of my favorite games of all time. It's so simple yet can be so complex. You can legit spend 8+ hours playing the first couple levels easily.

Always happy to share MM nostalgia. The RPG titles had a big impact on me but they seemed too niche without people to share it with.

I played many of those games, lots of amusing hours around them.

I played the shit out of HOMM3. I bought it, though, only after sneaking plays in between customers while working at Radio Shack. We had some ~300MHz Compaq machines that Radio Shack had recently partnered with to sell and on slow days, it was a good way to pass the time.

My favorite game of all time. I still have the CD-ROM even though I don't have any CD-ROM drives :)

Forget AI. Get in here this is our thread.

Amen!

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