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Comment by mauriciokeita | Hacker News Reader

Why is there no more recent studies on that?

Because usually the "euphoria" people feel is their biology failing due to mild poisoning. It is why most people will often upchuck within a few minutes of ingestion.

People may think they are finding enlightenment, but are no different from the local deranged squirrels aggressively howling at passerby after nibbling Amanita in the fall. Apparently the squirrels use the mushroom to help preserve food stores, and it doesn't poison them as severely (often fatal for humans.)

Paul Stamets is a weird dude, but his work contains some profoundly detailed observations.

People need to think about Fungi as closer to animals that don't move on their own, and acknowledge they rapidly adapt genetically to survive. Pretty to photograph, but often far more complex than people like to admit. =3

> Because usually the "euphoria" people feel is their biology failing due to mild poisoning.

All the recent studies in the last decade have proven it's the opposite. What's your point exactly ?

>Amanita

It's an entirely different class of hallucinogen. I don't have personal experience with it but I have done other dissociative hallucinogens and his take is likely largely true (though I wouldn't argue with someone saying they felt euphoria on it). The problem here is it's the entirely wrong mushroom.

I can assure any doubters that psilocybin on the other hand has legitimate euphoric effects.

The psilocybin containing variety also naturally grow in our yard, and the Amanita is an invasive variety. The "high" people feel is a chemical lobotomy from mild poisoning, and onset of renal failure. Hence why you feel nausea and often erupt out both ends if ingested (especially bad if allergic to a specific fungi.)

I asked for 5 citations not sponsored by dealers that he claimed were available, and my post was flagged. To be fair, I would also accept 3 double-blind medical citations of reasonable quality.

You can't argue with the irrational, as hitting yourself in the head with a brick also causes similar results. lol =3

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27909164/

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35458717/

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC12001667

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC12030455/

None of those publications are sponsored by dealers.

There are multiple others which I’m not going to search but I hope now you have starting points, you’ll be curious enough to do further research.

> hitting yourself in the head with a brick also causes similar results.

That’s false and you aren’t going to find a single paper (funded by anyone) that would conclude this.

These studies focused on combined therapy in psychiatry, and do not address the long-term health implications. They do confirm certain strata of the population benefit from the experience, but do not define the underlying mechanism (my concern.)

>That’s false and you aren’t going to find a single paper (funded by anyone) that would conclude this.

A brick may be too strong for some, but minor brain injury often causes euphoric experiences and personality changes... even if people hop up and down on the spot long enough. Native traditions in Africa have been getting concussion highs that way likely since history began.

Incidentally, getting hit with a brick would certainly cause someone to stop ruminating on existential angst for a little while, and euphoric concussions do cause cathartic experiences. lol =3

Notably, the age of surgical and chemical lobotomies were used to treat unruly patients in North America for several decades. Commonly, procedures were applied to treatment resistant criminal psychopaths and countless others with little long-term success.

We agree "something" happens (well documented with LSD), but disagree on the safety warnings in your own citations. Which do not clearly address long-term health effects due to the cocktail of other compounds in cancer patients.

I am not judging peoples life choices, but we must agree most people that do recreational drugs are not in cancer or psychiatric care.

Thank you for the citations, as it cleared up why we differ in opinion on this matter. Best of luck =3

Why don't you show me 5 citations of renal failure from a confirmed psilocybe cubensis in the tens of thousands of years people have been eating them.

Or... don't bother, the one you will find is questionable at best if you read past the headline.

>Why don't you show me 5 citations of renal failure from a confirmed psilocybe cubensis

Mostly, real doctors take "Primum non nocere" very seriously, and do not conflate therapeutic studies as proof organ damage isn't a risk. Fungal infection of those with compromised immune systems is harm.

People do experiment on the desperate, but it is rarely ethical gambling with someone's life. The squirrels seem to enjoy their trip, but also seem less invested in trying to justify its safety.

May you live an enjoyable life with authentic experiences. Have a glorious day. =3

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNSHZG9blQQ

So no citations then? Seems pretty trollish after making demands for citations just prior.

So, just to be clear, you have no evidence of renal failure from psilocybe cubensis?

Actually, the citations above already warn 40% of users have neutral to negative side effects, and doesn't get into the consequences of allergic or nausea related symptoms (about 2 of the 5 papers seem of reasonable quality.)

So to be clear, cancer patients have a lot of other problems that likely would confound which reported symptoms are related to which medication.

Someone with access to the PsycINFO database login could clarify things for sure. If I recall it was a few cases of micro-dosing related organ failure cases that caught my attention. No idea which specific psilocybe mushroom was responsible.

The Natives also used Datura, but rolling in your own excrement naked for 2 weeks with severe hallucinations isn't a popular recreational experience for some reason. A few kids die every so often trying to prepare the plant.

Have a great day, and stay healthy =3

I must apologize for the low quality data here:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S221175391...

You cited the one case in recorded history which I already pointed out existed. It's not the data that's questionable but the circumstances. His two friends ate from the same batch and were fine.

I'd say that counts squarely as "no evidence". Besides, I asked for 5 citations.

Also, you can keep the off topic babbling to a minimum. We are talking about the lack of evidence of renal failure resulting from psilocybe cubensis.

Not really, the Proof burden falls on people to verify something poorly studied is safe, keeping their petulance in check, and acknowledging their BS when proven harmful.

What seems like a detractor is an allusion to some therapeutic psychiatric citations describing native shamanistic traditions as some sort of qualifying safety feature in compounds.

I really can't be bothered to pull more papers folks seem to simply ignore. The trivial counter-proof is there, and it is unethical to harm people for more data.

Best of luck, and please keep an eye open for early signs of renal failure like persistent excessive foaming in urine etc. =3

So, you have zero examples and I have thousands of years of use with no evidence of what you claim. Burden of proof is definitely on you.

Except the physicians peer-reviewed published diagnostic data proving renal failure side-effects.

Good luck, most Dealers/Junkies engage in argumentum ad hominem when confronted with their exploitive/maladaptive coping behavior.

We will have to agree to disagree, =3

Which clearly exist only in your head. Disagree all you want, you failed to defend your point.

too lazy... no longer care about your problems

https://www.medlink.com/articles/neurologic-presentations-of...

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC1336442/

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S221175391...

Ahhh, I can reply now!

Would you like to give up? It's a bad look my man.

See the other post for current status of this thread.

The very first one states the mushroom was misidentified.

I'll assume from there you failed to read any of it.

Edit:

lol, here's the paper he cited and deleted:

https://academic.oup.com/ndt/article-abstract/11/11/2324/190...

The 4th one is the one you already admitted had bad data.

At least one of the other two clearly states that the mushroom was unidentified. You will have to read or delete both.

> Paul Stamets is a weird dude

A Star Trek reference?

He was writing practical agricultural mycology books long before he advised the TV show.

First came across his work while modeling hermetic food and waste reclamation options. Paul looked at this area several decades prior, and documented everything in detail. He is weird, but a good scientist worthy of respect. =3

The other way round. They named the Star Trek character after a real-world mycologist.

the "euphoria" they feel is serotonin.

Indistinguishable from the stages of Death:

https://www.ted.com/talks/jill_bolte_taylor_my_stroke_of_ins...

Some do not choose wisely =3

are you schizophrenic? you have the same kind of textual output as someone on the edge of psychosis

Ad hominem opinions is not a conversation, and a few times a year some fool dies in the local campground trying to get high and or a free wild-harvest meal.

Try not to be rude, and ask if you don't understand. =3

He's pretty entertaining really.

You are correct of course, it's a serotonergic hallucinogen.

https://www.erowid.org/psychoactives/chemistry/chemistry_com...

There just may be a tiny bit of SAR going on there. :)

Just ignore Peter Parker, and his sock-puppet troll accounts.

They are still in denial their kidneys may eventually fail. =)

I am still waiting for those 5 citations. Your last batch fell apart bad.

Let me guess, you’ve never tried them? This is the one substance no one should be talking about if you’ve never tried it. You can’t reason your way through it with first principles.

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