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Comment by gblargg | Hacker News Reader

It's a privilege to even have your Apple device working. If Apple decides it won't work, you're at their mercy.

Same goes for Windows or Android really.

If my windows device fails, I'm not going to Microsoft. I either fix the offending part of my desktop or laptop, or reinstall the OS or move to a different OS. If something is wrong with my android phone, I'm not going to Google since I don't own a Pixel and will go to the manufacturer of the phone. If it's a purely software issue, there are steps I can actually take to flash a different ROM though admittedly it's not an easy process.

Here Apple not only owns the device but also the software it's running as well as distribution of apps for this device except for CLI tools distributed by brew or other package managers. At least with a Mac I can install and run applications over the Internet. With an iPhone that's not at all possible (not sure about the status of side loading with the EU ruling and all)

Look up how many times a forced Windows update borked someone out of their computer.

Installing Windows without a key is not exactly straightforward, then there's that constant gentle reminder of how your copy of "Windows is not activated".

Microsoft COULD push an update that encrypts your hard drive, and forces you to pay $1000 for a key, if they wanted to.

It's unlikely, but the same as

> If Apple decides it won't work, you're at their mercy.

Not really the case for Android, you skip the google account setup or the amazon account setup if you are using a fire tablet and continue using the device by sideloading whatever APKs you want. Most of the times the APKs that depend on Google Play Services will continue to work fine.

I skipped the amazon account registration and directly sideloaded the Google Play apps on my fire tablet.

Even for Google TVs you can skip the setup and use the TV as is. You can sideload APKs on this as well.

AFAIK, the account setup/login circumvention is not possible on fire tv sticks/google chromecasts.

You can take a very old android device factory reset it and continue using at as an offline only device without the blessings of google or amazon. (Except FRP devices)

But that is not the case with Apple, you need to connect it atleast once to the internet to activate the device.

> Not really the case for Android, you skip the google account setup

Is this possible even if the account is locked to the device (FRP), which is often the case?

(from unfortunate experience) no. You have to have freed your android phone from the shackles before your account ceases to work

How many alternative operating systems work well on Apple devices?

Android phones usually have multiple options (Lineage, Calyx, eos, Graphene, depending on your particular phone) and you can always replace Windows with Linux.

How well do those alternatives play with your banking app?

Why would you want a banking app? If your bank won't work over browser and insists on installing some crap on your device, shop for another bank.

^This. For me, it's not my phone that's defective, it's the app. My phone runs my other ~10 apps that provide for my digital life perfectly fine, with the level of security I'm comfortable with (root access, firewall to block anything in/out that I don't specifically allow). If this is a problem for your app, your app is broken. I'll use something else.

In Finland, for example, you have to authenticate online through your banking application for any online government service or things like mobile plan. This 2FA is basically mandatory and the alternative is using keys printed on a paper that you have to pay for cause every key is one time use only and I am not sure they will continue that service for long.

It’s probably similar in Sweden and other neighbouring countries

The government delegates authentication to banks of all things?

I guess shop for another country?

I would not be able to log into _any_ local banking website without the government 2fa app. Not sure what the alternative is. Maybe they can give you an old school hardware device.

Or read the digital letters from government / municipalities.

Also I like my banking app.

> Not sure what the alternative is.

In your country? I'm not sure either.

In general? Slovenian government allows authentication via

- TLS client certificates,

- three different third party identity providers,

- ID card via a card reader

- .. or via NFC through a smartphone, and

- SMS OTP.

People who don't or don't want to use a smartphone shouldn't be barred from online government services or forced into a costly and slow authentication scheme when there's numerous better options.

Pretty well https://privsec.dev/posts/android/banking-applications-compa...

Also, having your banking app on your phone isn't the most desirable thing in reality, if you're security-minded.

My bank requires it, for better or for worse.

Any bank transfers are MFAd via the app, for example. It's the only bank that allows non-citizens in Germany that has English correspondence and wouldn't have taken months in Bureaucracy to open an account when I first moved.

Can I ask what bank that is? I'm looking at getting a German bank account, and I'm still much more comfortable with English.

N26 bank

So you chose an app-only 'bank' such as Revolut?

What did people do before such apps?

HSBC in the UK now blocks access to your accounts unless you use one of the allowed whitelisted keyboards.

Nobody is claiming every single app works perfectly on alternative Android OSes, so pointing out exceptions isn't really advancing the discussion

I'm not on an alternative Android OS. I'm on the shipped Samsung install no roots, and no hacks.

Old school banks will block access if you make your own keyboard so it doesn't phone home to Google or Samsung. Unless I misunderstood the original conversation.

I chose the only bank that'd allow me to accept a paycheck in a reasonable amount of time after moving across the planet, yes.

> having your banking app on your phone isn't the most desirable thing in reality, if you're security-minded.

Honest question: Why not?

I download less random program / files on my phone, then I do on my computer.

Think how your banking app might contain different data to other apps

He meant that the apps on the phone are less dangerous to a banking app.

I don't understand what you mean.

That really doesn't answer the question. It contains similar things to your bank website's browser cache. What exactly are you trying to say here?

Very well for my banking apps. With root and developers options enabled on my phone as well. If your banking apps does not work complain to your bank.

I've used CalyxOS and GrapheneOS and I haven't had any issues with the Swedish banks.

Very well, only the shittiest banking apps don’t work on them. Root is a bit more problematic, but would also be reason enough for me to change banks, as they seem to care more about theater than security.

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