I want an iPhone Mini-sized Android phone (2022)
smallandroidphone.com
smallandroidphone.com
I understand that Apple did not make enough money to make it worth their while to continue the iphone mini line. However, it does seem like there is a profitable business for someone there given how beloved it was/is.
I only traded out my iphone 12 mini just recently for an iphone 16 pro (likely the last apple product I will ever buy but thats another story) and aside from the camera it is basically the same. Just heavier, awkward to hold and slightly worse designed.
No major player wants a smaller screen because it has downstream impacts on the pipeline of addictive material and ad pixels they can stuff into ocular nerves.
https://9to5mac.com/2025/04/28/iphone-18-fold-details-launch...
For you. As someone with large hands, I appreciate that phones grew in size and I swapped to larger devices as soon as I could.
I think people with large hands are definitely the minority. So, we're not optimizing for hand size. We're optimizing for engagement, I think.
You don’t speak for most people. You can only speak for yourself. The feelings of “Most people” are clear as demonstrated by the market; they not only find large phones fine, they find them preferable.
> modern phones are not one hand operable
So? I mean for me they are so it’s irrelevant, but what should it matter if they are not? The market obviously does not share your interest in devices to be operated in such a manner as a priority or something of particular importance.
That being said, it’s of course unfortunate that if that is your preference, that nothing in the market caters for it. Your preferences and wants are obviously entirely valid and it’s a shame there is no interest even from a boutique vendor in meeting them.
I have plenty of preferences for products that are not catered too, as I am sure is true for us all and of course I don’t love it, but I must live in the reality that the larger market doesn’t always want what I do.
> We’re optimizing for engagement
The market is optimizing for what consumers asked for, which was larger devices. You say I am in a minority, I claim equally that you are in a minority as well.
I'm speaking about the one-hand operability, which I then conclude must not be very important and obviously the market prefers something else.
I will only address this part:
> The market is optimizing for what consumers asked for
This is hopelessly naive. This is true in the same sense that butane rings in cigarettes is optimizing for "what consumers asked for" - more pleasant to smoke cigarettes. Consumers don't know what they want, they're fed whatever is going to make the most money by advertisers. And they will like it, because there is no other choice.
The market is not some perfectly rational machine. It is, often, a self-eating beast, concerned with it's own self-preservation to such a degree that it destroys itself. Had the Tobacco industry chilled, they wouldn't have been eviscerated by legislation. But no - they had to target children, they had to make the death sticks as addictive as possible. As if to put a bright flashing sign on themselves that says "look at me! Regulate me!"
Except we know this is not the reality in this case as the worlds most successful mobile device marketer has made multiple attempts to create and market smaller devices which time and time again the majority of consumers have rejected.
The majority having a preference not matching your own doesn't need to be a conspiracy of consumer stupidity. Apple held out for a long time on making larger devices and ultimately caved to consumer sentiment, they didn’t grow that sentiment, they reacted to it.
> conspiracy of consumer stupidity
You misunderstand. Consumers aren't stupid, they're human. Human are remarkably easy to exploit. Exploiting the human mind is orders of magnitude easier than exploiting a computer.
I mean, you put a shiny machine in front of a human and tell them there's little to no chance they'll win money and they'll destroy themselves in front of it. Drain their bank accounts, ruin their marriage. You don't even have to lie - you can tell them gambling is bad, you can tell them they won't win, but that doesn't actually affect the exploit. Monkey brain see bright light, dopamine hits.
It's really quiet simple, and you're a market-minded man so you should be able to deduce this: it's all about incentives. You can continue to believe that the devices best for advertisers also happen to be what consumers want most. I think it's painfully naive, almost child-like.
I mean, look at smart TVs. Why do we have those? Do consumers prefer them? Sure. Is it to everyone's benefit that consumers prefer it? Certainly. So then we must ask - how did consumers come to prefer them? Was it, maybe, forced? Were they, maybe, exploited?
Just consider this. If I want to enter the Tobacco market, anywhere in the world, should I enter with a nicotine-free cigarette, or even a low-nicotine cigarette? Would those be successful? No, I think, the company would sink remarkably fast. We'd have no sales, consumers wouldn't buy it.
The only phones I've had that I could comfortably use one-handed were my old BlackBerry Q10 (2013) and BlackBerry Classic (2014). The Q10 because it's short enough to hold between my thumb and ring finger such that I could use my index and middle fingers on the touch screen (slightly unorthodox but it worked really well), and the larger Classic because it has an optical thumbpad and excellent software support for it (it was so good I rarely used the touch screen at all). And both had physical keyboards.
See here for dimensions and mockups: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/rumoured-iphone-fold-si...
Watching lots of Louis Rossmann has put me almost ideologically against Apple (even though they design great hardware and smooth UX within their ecosystem), but I'm not good at forming coherent points to present to Apple loving friends.
For me so far, I think it's about control over what I buy - but the rebuttal is always "you're buying a product from them, if you don't like it then tough".
I feel I am more frequently encountering software bugs, vaporware,(dESiGnEd fOr ApPle InTelLiGeNce), and ridiculous "innovation" (genmoji). I feel the hardware advances are not very relevant to me, I don't need VR or augmented reality. I want a computer to get out of my way and solve problems for me so I can spend time in plain old reality. The hardware upgrades I DO care about are ridiculously overpriced (Ram upgrades are abusively expensive).
While I prefer my computer to be a tool to get a job done and don't want the computer itself to be a hobby. I also do not want to be forced to use AI. I also dislike the rent seeking and toolbooth behavior of iMessage and the App store. Now that linux has more paved paths, things increasingly "just work" and hardware has basically caught up I don't see a good reason to support Apple's non-vision with my money.
As far as phones - your alternative is to buy an Android phone with an operating system by an ad company that is also pushing AI just as hard.
And you still end up getting most apps from the Google Play Store.
By the way, iMessage supports SMS/MMS/RCS for interoperability. What else do you want?
M1 Air or M2 Air, running Asahi Linux. I am posting this using my M1 Air, running Fedora Asahi.
> As far as phones - your alternative is to buy an Android phone with an operating system by an ad company that is also pushing AI just as hard.
I use Fairphone 4 with Ubuntu Touch.
As far as the Fairphone - poor battery life, bulky, poor camera, and the IP rating of 55 for water? Well at least it runs Linux.
Have heard good things about framework computers. As a more efficient chip or battery comes out you just upgrade that component if your use case requires it.
What offerings are out there for speed/no fan (quiet)/and lack of heat with battery life?
At any rate, non-Apple laptops have other benefits, like being able to get 64GiB/128GiB memory and large SSDs without breaking the bank.
In the end it's all a trade-off. If you are a sales representative that needs all-day battery life, MacBook is probably the only option. If you are a developer that needs something portable to hop between desks or on the train, but usually have access to a power socket (yay, Dutch/German trains), a few hours of battery is enough and you might prefer to get an insane amount of memory/storage, a built-in cellular modem, and an ethernet port instead.
[1] which means you need a 4 to 6h range when new if you don't plan to replace the battery too often
[2] students, construction companies, people who are always on the road...
When I was in the office full time in the bad old days, you would be in a conference room and every one would plug their laptops in.
After I started working remotely and still doing business trips, one charge could last a full day either going back and forth between conference rooms, in “war rooms” etc and no one with M series MacBooks even worried about charging.
Heck my MacBook Pro (work laptop) can last a full day on power with my portable USB C powered external monitor where the power and video come from one cord.
Not to mention on flights with layovers.
I used to run Linux on a laptop (10+ years ago) and you couldn't even close the laptop lid without risking it not going to sleep and overheating in your bag.
I don't worry about closing my thinkpad lid. Well I do because I disable sleep on lid close and prefer using the dedicated button for that. But my thinkpad goes to sleep when I ask it to.
Battery life, probably none. For the rest it's pretty ok now - I recently got a ThinkPad T14. Performance-wise it's in M1/M2 territory and yes the fans can spin up, but they are not very loud.
I have used MacBooks since 2007, but I have started using the ThinkPad more and more. Why?
I put in 64GiB RAM and a 2TB SSD and it cost me almost nothing. The laptop plus these expansions was 1400 or 1500 Euro, a MacBook with 64GiB RAM and 2TB SSD would cost me 5000 Euro. When the battery has had its time, I can replace it by removing a few screws. I added a PCI cellular modem. The expandability and maintanability is just great.
Even though the GPU in my MacBook Pro (M3 Pro) blows away the ThinkPad's GPU on paper, the ThinkPad with Wayland actually renders everything super-smoothly on my 120Hz 4K screen, while on the MacBook the difference between 60Hz and 120Hz is barely noticeable. On the ThinkPad I can run NixOS, which is generally much nicer than macOS.
The primary thing that my MacBook has over my ThinkPad are battery life and a bunch of really good Mac applications like the Affinity Suite. But since more and more applications are switching to Electron, it has become less of a problem. Heck, I even have 1Password with fingerprint unlock, etc. like if it was a MacBook.
As far as phones - your alternative is to buy an Android phone with an operating system by an ad company that is also pushing AI just as hard.
Or I don't know, you buy a Pixel, install GrapheneOS, and you have better privacy than on an iPhone? And no F1 movie ads too.
That’s cool, but you represent a tiny slice of the market that as devices get more powerful, isn’t addressable in the low volumes needed to make you happy.
When the chips needed to make a phone are priced like toys, maybe you’ll find the product for you.
I remember when Samsung had removable batteries, I went in to a Samsung store to buy a replacement for my S5 battery and they told me they didn't sell them, only new phones. Meanwhile I can take my iPhone in to any Apple store and they will replace the battery for me.
So yeah Apple does need to be forced to massively improve their practices but so does pretty much the entire tech industry aside from a few small projects that focus on being repairable.
Also the longer I used my iphone mini and the rest of the world moved to comically large phones the more it became apparent that nobody is thinking about small screen form factors in design and when they do its only around ad placement.
We are helplessly addicted to digital cocaine, and so we demand large phones, and so motorola will not make money selling a small phone.
It's like the parent said: our addiction is the product, and so just like a chain-smoker will say "I want to quit" as they buy 5 packs a day, a modern smartphone user will say "I want a smaller screen and to look at ads less" as they hopelessly buy a 10 inch phablet and can't go 5 minutes without pulling it from their pocket to check tiktok.
It is not that the money from advertising flows, it is that the addicted users have already been ruined, and will not buy the devices they say they want.
"No major player wants a smaller screen because it has downstream impacts on the pipeline of addictive material and ad pixels they can stuff into ocular nerves." -- what is the direct (or indirect) pressure that the major players can exert over some more or less independent hw manufacturer like Motorola? I'm not saying it's impossible, it reminds me of e.g. the situation where (pre iphone) carriers blocked phones from having wifi because they wanted them to be dependent on their network, but if something like this is happening it should be possible to roughly point out how.
There are lots of phone manufacturers who have no ads business. They just make phones so why would they care?
Size is dictated by trouser pocket size/handbag size and usage. Editing photos and movies to upload onto social media is probably better on a big screen.
Also screen size is dictated by common panel sizes, as low volume will mean a higher price.
Folding screens and iPad Mini's existence suggests people want larger screen real estate.
And so while there are people who want "small screen + nice camera". There are people who want "small screen + small price". There are many people who _don't want the small screen_. So you have this phone that can cost a lot of money (in a pretty messy market where most phone models seem to not make money anyways), and you're going to cut off chunks of the market?
So we end up with small screen + shitty camera and specs etc. And people here who want a small phone (but really want a small phone that isn't miserable to use) still are unsatisfied.
There are still bound to the screen resolution dictated by the platforms/environment. A maker selling an android phone with a 480x640px screen would face a huge uphill battle to see any sales.
Going for a smaller physical screen means higher DPI, so higher production costs and quality control issues. It can make more sense to buy cheaper, low DPI screen and make the whole device bigger to match the needed pixel count.
I mean... none of the big ones.
For the others, they DO make small phones, and even non-addictive phones. We have e-ink phones in pure black and white.
But then it hit the practicable limits of what people can pocket/hold-comfortably.
If you make a phone with a smaller screen but want to call it "flagship" then you'd better have some good marketing to reverse the perception.
Just did the exact same thing 5 months ago.. I still miss my 12 mini. Would strongly consider buying a 13 mini instead of its even being sold anymore.
The little half screen on the flip is useless though. Basically nothing works on it.
As far as the mini phones - because physics - the battery life is atrocious. That was one of the main drivers for me to get a larger phone. Well that and because I can pull down the Control Center and use the widget to make everything on my phone larger and still be able to use it without wearing my glasses. With my glasses, I keep everything the smallest size
The other manufacturers are forced to go along with the market leaders, but sometimes also side-load apps for post-device-sale revenue.
Globally, Apple has what 20% market share? And besides Qualcomm chips, Apple has a complete separate parts supply chain than Android.
Besides, Samsung could definitely create its own small phone and would if there were a market.
Samsung, from what I remember used to side-load tons of apps (some alongside identical stock Android apps), so it's in their best interest to maximise screen time through media apps, which generally work best on a bigger screen.
It's against all of these companies interests to sell you a phone which you quickly use and put away. They all have every incentive to keep you staring, because they're all getting extra money from every ad you see in a game, TV show, movie, web browsing, or wherever else they can slot it.
The new ZenFones are just rebadged ROGs which explains the massive size jump. I'm not looking forward to replacing this phone when it ages out.
I've gotten my EDC down to 1 leather ID sleeve with my credit card and drivers license in it, and my phone. This is probably still thicker then it should be, but it's soft so I don't feel the bulk or edges.
Now even at 80% original capacity, a Samsung can still last me throughout the day given that I am not watching videos constantly. The Iphone 6 back in the day would go to 40% in 3 hours, then suddenly to 5% in minutes.
Plus most people replace their laptop with a phone now. So the big screen size is a must.
Normal people didn’t love small phones. They loved their small iPhones.
When it comes down to it they will not love the Pine Phone Mini.
For the vast majority of people, the key feature is that it’s an iPhone not that it’s small.
The first phablets were probably the Galaxy Note line starting in 2011 which was met with some skepticism due to the size of them. These were well before the edge to edge screen days. So you had 5.7 inch screens with a bezel.
They were huge but I would routinely see small women pull these things out of their hand bags and press a device that obscured almost their whole face and start chatting.
Things steadily got bigger from there. The general population WANTED this.
> women
To note, the initial smartphones were already too big for he taste of many: a clamshell feature phone was almost a third of the size of the original iPhone. From that POV, going to a phone that is twice as big is less of a barrier, as they had to keep it in a bag/purse in the first place.
The return of foldables is also pretty well received in that regard.
They are cool phones, but I do iOS. I still use a 13 Mini, and will continue to do so, for quite some time.
As to the point of this article, I seem to recall a couple of very small Android phones, some years ago (about credit-card sized). I guess they didn’t sell well.
IMHO this is just not viable in the current world.
I agree with line the article sets (5"4 for 1080p, almost the size of the Pixel 4a), as mainstream apps will properly work at that size. I still have a working 4a, and some banking apps are getting pretty cramped for instance. And many websites already need furious panning and zooming.
A credit card size phone would only work for people who basically hate their phones I think.
They seemed underwhelmed at the phones.
[EDITED TO ADD]
Found ‘em: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2018/10/palm-rises-from-the-...
Also, these: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/11/meet-this-unique-com...
Completely agree. Although not even on "small phones", my S23 isn't small but the design of these apps has regressed so much that I barely see any useful information.
On my old WAP phone I could see bank balance and maybe the last transaction or two. Now half the screens taken up with upselling account levels, invest in shares, buy crypto, you've been pre-approved!
My cynical take is that an unholy pact was formed between FE devs and UX designers:
By adding in "design" and "user experience" you essentially reduce features, complexity and general "dev time" of every single user-screen or page or component. They're no longer cram-packed with oodles of features, toggles, buttons, menus, etc. Most pages are glorified lists of things, with maybe a menu on each item if you are lucky. Devs dev less, have less bugs, just use FE-library of the day and go home happy because they made a CRUD screen essentially.
Meanwhile, UX designers get to play around and constantly fiddle with design because let's all be honest, nothing will ever be truly good and in a perfect "user experience" space because complexity and functionality are never what the user is happy about having, until they need it.
Probably. It's people who know they have to own a smartphone for so many things like park their car but don't really want one.
This was a number of years back but I know a then tech executive who got a phone (I think it may have been a feature phone at the time) only because their nanny absolutely insisted.
I assume they must be reliable by know, they’ve been making foldable screens for years.
I opened it, and most of the screen looked like a big, roundish black blob of ink, centred on the fold, on top of the Android animations working perfectly underneath, but only visible at the edges. I was impressed that the rest of the screen around worked perfectly, but it was unusuable due to the size of the black blob.
Something had broken at or near the fold while it was on display.
All other devices were in great condition; it was a well-maintained store.
(Tangential: of course I don't blame anyone for bringing their phone with them everywhere but if you're going to go to a friend group hangout, consider how annoying it is when you're trying to talk to someone and they're clearly checked out browsing some slop on Twitter or talking to someone else entirely. Take a damn break from the phone!)
I do increasingly think about whether I need to bring a laptop on various trips. It can be handy but I try to pack light and another few pounds is a lot for me. I've experimented with a newish tablet but it's a bit too in-between for my taste.
I guess Japan was ahead of the curve once again.
There's also the accessibility factor. Many people become farsighted later in life. It's much easier to see things on a big phone, especially with increased zoom. (I see this all of the time when I fly.)
Or for those of us with higher end myopia whose lenses effectively “shrink” everything they see. I’m -6.75 in each eye and my glasses make my everything seem significantly smaller than it is.
Sometimes I look at my phone or monitor without my glasses and am momentarily shocked at how large they seem and then saddened when I put them back on.
When I went to buy it, and the case, the employees at the Apple Store questioned me and tried to push me toward the normal iPhone. This is the first and only time I’ve ever felt Apple Store employees steering purchasing decisions. I had to go in there knowing what I wanted, and had to assert that it was what I wanted repeatedly.
Are people buying big phones because they are addicted to their screens, or are people addicted to their screens because of big phones?
Probably because they knew that customers would come back to complain about the abysmal battery life of the Mini? I had a 12 Mini, I loved that phone, but man was it hard to get through the day on a single charge.
The only time I recently struggled getting through the day was when on vacation and constantly using google maps & translate. But that is with a 3 year old phone.
It's a vicious cycle. Phone manufactures make the screen bigger, app and website developers realize they can cram more junk on the page, consumers demand larger screens as a result, return to step 1.
Larger screen = easier life.
I would rephrase that to: The general population wants a larger phones because phones are defacto PCs these days. They can watch movies, browser the news, listen to music, FaceTime, Maps, ..
Outside of business applications likes Word / Excel, phones basically handles 90% of people's requirements for "computers".
That thing could really stand out in a crowd. I was at a baseball stadium for a concert that year, and spotted someone with a Dell Streak as I was heading down to the field. In a sea of people that was the one phone I spotted. I stopped to ask the guy about it briefly.
I also remember the viral, doctored image showing the reachability of phone screens which "proved" that 3.5 inches was the "ideal" phone size.
The Samsung Galaxy Note 2 had a screen size of 5.5 inches. I had one and regularly had strangers ask me if that was really a phone. I had friends say, "Give me a call on your tablet" as a joke.
I loved it. Now my 6.1 inch iPhone feels on the small side.
They are called tablets, some come with a sim slot so they are essentially the same.
Do they like using two hands? I can’t single hand a phone any larger without having to shift it in my hand.
I don’t want to use two hands on my phone outside of typing.
And then a few weeks later I bought one. All the guys in my office laughed and said "Wow, look at that huge thing, it's ridiculous". I chuckled and agreed, though I was quietly enjoying the larger screen.
And now everyone's using them.
Easy to say if the only devices are big phones. There is no choice.
General population doesn't buy phones every year and they don't want a nerfed phone when they have to pay 500-1000 $/€s. So they gravitate towards higher end ones.
Companies including Apple has always treated the small size as an entry to mid segment phone. The only exception I know is Sony z3 and z5 compact which suffered heat and battery swelling issues due to Qualcomm messing 810 series SoCs up.
Companies also want you to buy the most expensive phone. So they market the premium models and train their store personnel to sell more of the premium line. If they stop intentionally nerfing the smaller phones, I think there is a market there. However, it will still be smaller.
Phone screen sizes grew as the applications that could use screen space grew in demand.
People are watching 1080p films on the train now. The people who want smaller screens are usually willing to deal with a larger one. People who want larger screens usually cant operate their use cases on a smaller screen. Larger screens also tend to mask larger case meaning less miniaturisation required for the components.
You have people who want them unusably large and people who want them to fit in your hand. The solution in every other market is that products are manufactured to fit both sets of needs. You don't see pants coming in one size with the advice "wear a belt".
What's going on?
Every manufacturer seems to think people are either tall and fat or short and slim. I'm tall and my only alternative is literally to wear a belt.
Great example. Because people who are shorter than average tend to have to get pants taken up, and people who are vastly taller than average tend to go to specialty stores.
The average height of pants is largely dictated by what the market will permit, requiring people to make adjustments or leave the market. Having a 2d matrix of height and width defined pant sizes is too complex for the market to bother with.
Technology is worse, anything that requires tooling is done the least number of times possible. While small phone enjoyers are disadvantaged, they arent disadvantaged enough to force them out of the market. Larger tooling is easier to make and caters to all other preferences.
No, you're making up a claim that you know perfectly well is false. Just blank most of your day out of your mind, and then... what? Why?
You don't like pants? Televisions come in dozens of different sizes. Laptops come in dozens of different sizes. Are phones different in some way?
I cant even parse this? What am I blanking?
>You don't like pants? Televisions come in dozens of different sizes. Laptops come in dozens of different sizes. Are phones different in some way?
Where did I claim not to like pants?
Laptops come in tons of different sizes. So do phones.
They tried sub 10 inch laptops, in the form of netbooks, the form factor barely exists anymore outside of hobbyists. Netbook enthusiasts either have to exit the market, or go for something 10 inch or higher. Because its not worth the tooling to deal with a niche market.
You're in a minority, it's not profitable to cater to you, and most people don't care.
That's the cold hard truth of it.
Perhaps... just perhaps... the explanation lies elsewhere?
I should have included some kind of question as to what it might be.
"You have ... people who want them to fit in your hand"
Are incorrect. The number of people who will actually buy small devices is ... small. The number of people who are so interested in small devices they'll overlook things like a lower battery life and whatever other compromises are needed to achieve the smaller size, likely even fewer.
It's not like it hasn't been tried in the past, people in this thread talk about iPhone minis disappearing - Apple couldn't make them a success. Sony couldn't make them a success either and stopped making them AFAICT. As a market segment you're too small to warrant the investment in designing a small flagship. And if nobody's investing in a small flagship, small midmarket isn't going to happen either.
There do appear to be niche manufacturers in this segment (take a look at https://www.reddit.com/r/smallphones/). If the untapped demand is so huge, I would expect to see them become much more mainstream over time.
But the subtext is that this is enough of a population to make a viable market, that in fact any number of people, however small, make a viable market. It's just not a reasonable prior.
So I'm asserting that it may as well be zero as far as the big manufacturers are concerned, that with such a small audience it's not profitable. Further, that this dynamic does indeed play out in other markets.
OP is looking for a conspiracy as to why phone manufacturers are leaving money on the table. The truth is they aren't. This situation is exactly what you'd expect when there's no real market - a few niche providers making a few niche products for die-hards (without the scale, support or quality of the majors) and not making a lot of money at it, while the rest of the market ignores them.
Perhaps… just perhaps… people just like bigger screens and it’s not some kind of weird conspiracy theory?
There is demand for larger phones, yes, but manufacturers also charge more for bigger devices and most of that is margin. Following their own logic, they also charge less for smaller phones.
If your customers are sticky, then many of the people who buy the smaller phone would have otherwise bought a bigger phone for more money. Introducing a smaller phone brings down profits.
Why do they do that though? Usually more compact, high end devices would be more expensive than bulkier one. When has this trend reversed?
I owned an iPhone 13 mini. Basically the perfect small phone if there ever was one.
The downsides are extensive and the upsides are few.
- Battery life sucked. Since a phone is a 3D object making it bigger substantially increases battery capacity. It also makes packaging difficult especially if the goal is a flagship-quality phone. Good luck fitting in good hardware with a lot of features.
- Eyestrain. It’s small.
- Typing. It sucks. The phone is small.
And it turns out the upside of one-handed operation is limited. A simple PopSocket or OhSnap! will make large phones easy to use in one hand.
Plus, if pocketability is your issue, you can buy a folding phone like a Motorola Razr and still get a nice big screen when you pull it out.
I ended up switching from a 13 mini (I had the 12 mini as well) to a 16 Pro. I was having a lot of battery life issues, and kept running into apps that clearly didn’t fully test with the smaller screen. I also really missed having a telephoto lens.
My phone usage went up; my laptop/desktop usage went down. I don’t like that. Compared to a normal computer, a phone is still worse in almost every way, other than mobility. It’s just now tolerable enough to put up with more of the time. I’m writing this on the phone, it would have been easier on a keyboard and mouse.
The battery also wasn’t the main issue, just a contributing factor. I was ok using the battery as a signal for when I was using the phone too much and taking it as a signal to reevaluate my usage. Seeing software bugs related to the screen size, as figuring that would only get worse now that new phones didn’t come in the smaller size… that’s what made me think I might as well get the transition over with.
I’ve had battery issues with the 16 Pro, but those are software bugs. Some days my phone will give me a low battery warning by noon. I end up killing all the apps, charging it up again, and then it’s fine. It’s happened about 4 or 5 times, but I haven’t been able to tell what’s doing it.
You, like me, are not representatives of a market phone manufacturers are interested in. Utilitarian and minimal use only sells one phone every few years.
They are catering for the overwhelming market that spends upwards of 5 hours screen time per day, watches movies and TVs, plays games, and generally spends as much time as possible on them, with as much payment and ad revenue as that comes with on top of the original device sale.
I always personally liked the idea of computers being fixed, or semi-fixed (like a laptop), as a place to work or study, and then leave once that is done. The replacement of computers and laptops by tablets and phones is a wider cultural shift from computers being tools and productive technology to entertainment and consumerist technology, in my opinion.
Then few months later they launched the mini expecting it to sell even more or something. Somehow they missed that everyone that wanted a small phone had just bought the SE, and it just wasn't long enough for them to be worth upgrading to the much better mini.
Had they waited for a year to pass the mini might have done much better because those who wanted a more powerful phone could find an excuse for an upgrade after a year, less then 6 months, not so much.
iPhone SE 1st gen 2016 (Discontinued 2018)
iPhone 12 Mini 2020 (Discontinued 2022)
iPhone SE 2nd gen 2020 (Discontinued 2022)
iPhone 13 Mini 2021 (Discontinued 2023)
iPhone SE 3rd gen 2022 (Discontinued 2025)
Most of them don't care about the premium features of larger phones. So the Mini was a weird niche within a niche. Small phone with premium price and features.
The Mini and SE2 were virtually identical in physical size. For the 16e they should have used the iPhone 12/13 Mini body and the 13 Mini screen. Use the 15 Pro SoC with 8GB memory, and the 15 camera. Sell it for an SE price. Now you have fused the small phone and budget iPhone markets.
My wife, I, and several people I know had iPhone 12 or 13 Mini. Their battery life was pretty terrible and word soon got out it was. I think this was in the end what killed it for people who are normally buying Apple flagships and were considering a Mini. It was very hard to get through the day with a Mini.
Besides the abysmal battery life, I think the market for small phones is maybe simply not there. Samsung keeps around one smaller model (base S-series) and arguably the Z Flip is a smaller model (but persistent hardware issues). If there was a large demand for flagship-class small phones, I am sure some Android manufacturers would make them.
My hypothesis about the supposed non-existence of the small phone buyer is that they very much do exist (personally, haven't bought anything other than whatever was the smallest Xperia at the time in more than a decade), but that this group has little overlap with the group willing to buy for list price on release day. But the perception of success of a given phone is very much dominated by the latter, the long tail of buyers isn't really seen. Even if the release day premium over mid-lifecycle street price (in countries where price fixing is not allowed) goes to the retailer and is of very little interest to the manufacturer.
Manufacturers should just move compacts to a three year cycle and forget everything about hyper-optimizing desirability for the kind of buyer who spends too much time reading questionable review sites.
My phone isn't some entertainment device, it's a utility tool. I don't need it to be "smart", it should be useful on the go. The persona sketched by GP just isn't me: Messaging, maps, weather, 2FA, and calculator come first, email (read only) and news feed second, the camera is a third for documenting purposes (if even, I'd rather take my full frame). The easier it is to carry this thing around and the longer lasting its build quality, the better. Why would I pay almost double (USD 699 VS 399 on launch) for a less robust mini with sharper edges?!
If Apple were to continue the offer of rehashed designs from previous generations (preferably with rounder edges) for a SE line, limit its dimensions to never go beyond 140x67.5x8mm, and make it last for solid 5-year release cycles, then count me in as your most loyal customer. As it currently stands I'm looking out for a small sized phone from any manufacturer. I would even lower my expectations on support cycle and build quality quite a bit (if reasonable priced) before I'd give in on the size.
I've gone iPhone -> 3GS -> 4 -> 5s -> 6s -> 7 -> SE 2020 -> SE 2022.
The Mini never interested me. I love the SE. I love the home button and TouchID. I love the traditional size. If I want more I have an iPad Pro (12.9" original 2015 model bought in 2015 -- the battery still lasts 2 weeks with my usage pattern) or M1 Mac Mini with a 32" 4k screen.
If they don't make a new SE model I don't know what I'll do. I guess, firstly, get a new battery for it before it's out of the support window. Maybe sometime next year. And then see how long app updates support whatever the last OS version it will run is.
The ONLY thing I'd change in my SE, if it was possible, is more than 4 GB of RAM. The latest models have 8 GB and the others at the time the SE was sold already had 6 GB.
With recent system updates I'm getting a lot more of applications restarting when I switch back to them. This is mostly not a huge problem, except that the X app loses your place in the "Following" stream if you're more than a few hours behind and the app reloads.
Regardless, battery life is horrendous now, and it's starting to lag and fail so when the new ultra watch is released I'm going to replace my phone with it.
With 3rd party batteries it can't do this, so it doesn't (I think, will admit I'm not entirely sure exactly how iOS deals with 3rd party batteries it can't determine the status of), and if you replaced it with an official part then it would have been in good condition, so regardless which road you took, it's possible that you went from a state where the OS was clocking down, to one where it wasn't anymore.
The iPhone 13 Mini made up around 3% of total iPhone sales, so there's clearly a market for compact, mid-range phones ($600-$700). You can manufacture them in China or India for somewhere between $250 and $400, depending on the battery, camera, and overall performance.
The real challenge is that the retail price of a mid-range Android phone can't go over the $500 mark. People in developing countries are always stuck trying to balance quality with price. And for $500 bucks they expect a prime phone nowadays.
I currently have this problem (iPhone 11). It's not slight at all. Keyboard inputs sometimes has up to a full 1000ms latency and that's with autocorrect, suggestions, and spellcheck turned off. Scrolling in most apps are jumpy rather than smooth. When this phone dies, I don't know what I'll get. Hopefully a good linux phone exists by then.
Also having a laptop means the battery doesn't matter that much as you can just charge it off that.
I love my iPhone 13 Mini. Its only issues are battery life (now), and non-competitive camera. I'm personally happy with the photos it takes, but then I look at my girlfriend's shots and get FOMO.
While I doubt it's economical, I'd love a small, simple phone with juiced up camera. I'd be fine with worse battery life as external batteries can remedy that in a pinch.
Unlike many it seems, I don't care much about the camera. I'd probably want some sort of camera for scanning QR codes, or snapping a quick photo of something I want to look up later, but otherwise I don't take photos or videos on my phone. I don't use any social media on my phone other than text messaging. This makes the smaller battery size/capacity a non-issue.
Since Apple no longer makes a reasonably-sized phone I'll probably go back to Android after this one dies or becomes unsupported.
I also think it's silly to carry a $1,000 device around with you everywhere, so a "premium" small phone is probably a non-starter for me. My favorite phones were the ~$200 Moto-G phones I had before I got the iPhone (it was a gift).
I don’t explain it and every time I get explained they like it better because it’s got bigger battery and bigger screen, I just don’t understand how you could live your life with a brick constantly on you but it’s what people want.
The market just adapted to the demand and it’s not a 40k « petition » that will change much.
Most women carry their phone in a hand bag anyway as the pockets on most pants for women are way to small either way [1].
[1] https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/06/style/pockets-womens-clot...
Some may prefer Bluetooth headphones, and there are countless apologists who now retroactively parrot the manufacturers' excuses for why headphone jacks were eliminated, but it wasn't something the _users_ asked for or wanted.
"Oh, but phones are waterproof now," they claim! Well, so was the Samsung Galaxy S5 I bought in 2014. And by the way, it also had a user-removable battery, removable storage, an FM radio, and an IR blaster. All these years later, you can't find a new phone with all of those features and it's very difficult to find a flagship phone with even _one_ of them.
Again, I’m not angry that current phones exist; I’m just sad there aren’t (good) alternatives – at least that I know of.
[1]: There’s a paper one in the restaurant, of course, but I like to choose beforehand.
The market has spoken, it's not worthwhile for Apple to produce small phones.
There are a million companies that are not Google that could also produce mini phones and don't for the same exact reason: most people want large screens to enjoy videos and photos.
Nobody cares about small screens and pockets, everyone holds their phones in their hands or purses at all times.
But Hanlon's razor and the way Apple has been on a screwing up spree of late I doubt it was anything intentional. They f'ed up knowing not what to do at all. They don't anymore.
Occam's razor beats Hanlon's razor.
Like it or not, Apple keeps cancelling smaller phone lines because they don't sell well. That's it. If they sold really well then they'd keep selling them, but they don't.
I would also love more capable small phones personally, but I can't deny that people overall don't seem to want them.
Modern phones are sold (even at profit) with the intent that there is more payments/ad revenue coming down the line, for movies, TV, games and web browsing/social media. A big screen makes that experience better for people and advertisers. It's a cynical take, but the entire business model is based on building and promoting addiction.
They have no interest in selling phones for utility purposes only, even though that's largely how they advertise the phones, because advertising a 5 hour plus daily screen time isn't sexy at all.
This is equivalent to something I called the "QWERTY paradox" more than a decade ago:
Back when the Smartphone market exploded, people disliked typing on a touchscreen and repeatedly stated that they want a device with a physical keyboard.
There was plenty of evidence, surveys, market studies, trend predictions, devices for these "Messaging-centric" use-cases were always part of this market-demand roster.
But whenever someone answered the call and built a Smartphone with QWERTY keyboard, the product failed commercially, simply because also to people claiming they want such a phone, at the point of sale they were less attractive than their slimmer, lighter, all-screen counterparts.
Every major vendor went through this cycle of learning that lesson, usually with an iteration like "it needs to be a premium high-spec device" --> (didn't sell) --> "ah, it should be mass-market" --> (also didn't sell).
You can find this journey for every vendor. Samsung, LG, HTC, Motorola, Sony.
The same lessons were already learnt for small-screen devices: There was a "Mini" series of Samsung Galaxy, LG G-series, HTC One, Sony Xperia. It didn't sell, the numbers showed that it didn't attract additional customers, at best it only fragmented the existing customer-base.
Source: I work in that industry for a long time now
I hope that small companies would launch device like this with 500-1000 devices being created and sold in a year just fulfill the niche and doesn't go bankrupt
Say you charge $1,000 per device. That means you need to build an entire company, pay staff, and prototype then manufacture a custom hardware device with customized software with less than a million dollars. Costs add up real fast.
Can a similar device without malware not be made in small batches? At a selling price of $500 or less?
The end result will be a $100 quality phone.
https://www.theverge.com/2012/3/28/2909815/dell-retires-venu...
> 192.78 g
Kind of funny, I would've thought it was heavier, but that is less than an S25 Ultra in weight... I think that also speaks to how large screens have gotten!
The real reason the iPhone mini failed is not related to screen size, it's because its segment was canibalized by the cheaper alternative, the SE. The 2020 and 2022 sold like hot breads, wherehas their screen was almost an inch smaller than the iPhone mini. This is the proof that there a significant market for people who don't care about size and would gladly take the smallest option at a $100 discount from the regular one.
I just want something small that will fit comfortably in my pocket, and I can use with one hand.
I did this for years because I liked the form factor so much.
My new buying criteria for my iPhone is simply “buy the smallest one offered”.
But I’m willing to accept I’m not a big enough market segment to move the market.
Correct. To back this up a little bit with numbers, the iPhone 13 Mini all by itself sold about the half of the rate of the entire Google Pixel lineup. I bet lots of phone manufacturers would love to have half the sales of Google's premier Android phone. I also switched from Android to iPhone solely because of the 13 Mini form factor (I prefer Android, but I prefer a human-hand-sized phone even more).
Source:
Google shipped about 10 million Pixel phones in a year https://9to5google.com/2024/02/22/pixel-2023/
iPhone Mini accounted for about 3% of iPhone sales https://9to5mac.com/2022/04/21/cirp-iphone-13-best-selling-l...
iPhones sell about 200 million units per year https://www.demandsage.com/iphone-user-statistics/
200 million * 0.03 = 6 million iPhone Minis per year
The mini could have been simply, iPhone. The marketing would have been that they managed to add an extra .7" of screen, while reducing the overall size and weight. That's a great pitch. Who doesn't want a bigger screen in something that more easily fits in their pocket? Instead they called in a "mini", people thought it would be tiny and hard to use, so they didn't buy it.
The iPhone 12 mini screen was only .1" smaller than the screen on the iPhone 8 Plus... the giant option from just a few years earlier.
The mini was a marketing and brand strategy failure, plain and simple. It wasn't a small phone.
Well, there was BlackBerry. Multiple phone vendors assuming they could refresh a previously world-dominating form factor with contemporary smartphone guts only seems unreasonable in hindsight.
The bakers says: ‘No, I don’t sell carrot cake.’
So the bunny leaves, but returns the next day. He once again asks if the baker has any carrot cake.
Once more the baker answers: ‘No, I don’t sell carrot cake.’
Once the bunny left, the baker started making a carrot cake thinking the bunny would return the next day for the cake. And so the bunny did, and he asks: ‘Do you have carrot cake?’
To which the bakers answers: ‘Yes, today I DO sell carrot cake.’
So the Bunny says: ‘YUCK, isn't it disgusting, why do people sell these things?!’
People do ask the wrong questions.
Yes, I would buy the phone with the keyboard, but the keyboard is not the single most important feature. After the Desire Z there simply was nothing comparable. If it was 400 instead of 300 I would have said no, if it was from a brand I hate because they mess up the default Android install I might have said no. If it was 1:1 like some other phone except the battery being atrocious I might have said no.
The problem is that they are changing 10 variables at a time, including size, cost, software, camera, battery, whatever.
But the existence of the yellow one helped sell the black one.
That's a typical issue for car sales by the way.
So, it did sell, but at the expense of larger phones. Which means we are not offered this because it's a bit more profitable for the smartphone makers to only offer larger phones. Extremely annoying.
What should be much more annoying is this: There is roughly half of the entire Smartphone ecosystem systematically isolated from free market-forces by a single brand, with the other half isolated by an OS. So even if a company would come along with a compelling compact phone, if it cannot instantly replace everything Apple offers, that company can only address HALF of its potential market, and ONLY if it's based on Android then.
My theory is that much of this effect is an error, or at least a far-less-than-ideal effort, on the part of the designers. Of course it’s hard to sell a low-end “mini” device with a worse camera, worse battery life, etc. But that’s not actually what I, or many people I discuss this with, want. I would happily buy a premium device that is short and narrow, and possibly even thicker as a tradeoff. There’s plenty of unexplored room in the design space here. For example: start with an iPhone Pro or whatever the Android equivalent du jour is. Keep the camera unchanged. Shrink the display but keep the same quality (at least equal pixel density). Now puff out the back so that the camera lenses are flat or even slightly recessed. Use the resulting added volume to compensate for the decrease in volume due to decreasing the other dimensions. Market the think as a Whatever Phone Pro Compact, and advertise clearly that the battery life is every bit as good as the non-Compact model version. Show off cool pictures models sticking this thing in their cool jeans pockets without them sticking out. Charge the same price as the ordinary Pro model.
As far as I know, no one has tried anything like this in recent memory. The iPhone 12 and 13 Mini were always marketed as the cheaper versions, and the cute little old SE model was very much a low-end version. Last I checked, there was no 5G Android device with similar dimensions from any manufacturer.
AFAIK, these are similar to the iPhone SE? The SE form factor was great in terms of size and thickness. Easy to use with one hand. I miss that.
Using the jelly star proved that using a small screen is not a problem for me and I would gladly pay money for an experience like that.
But it also proved that it is not an acceptable option in terms of quality. Hopefully the Jelly Max is better in these regards.
I think Jelly Max the ideal size for me too (jelly star was a little too small for doing driving navigation). I'll keep an ear out
My ideal phone is something small and rugged with physical keys that supports Android Auto for navigation and a few other basic apps I need (Bitwarden basically).
Software aside, I’ve heard mixed things about the keyboard on the Titan. Keeping an open mind though, I would like to support companies filling this niche.
If you install Lineage or something, isn't that essentially a non-issue?
Otherwise those seem great! Never heard of them.
No, they were not. They were literally a scaled down version of their respective regular sized counterparts, the 13 Mini had the same cameras, SOC, memory, screen quality and storage options as the regular 13 [0], yet its sales success (or lack thereof [1]) was enough to instantly cure me of any previously held notions that there is a sufficiently large group of buyers for these devices out there.
It isn't because the specs are inferior, the cameras are changed, the display has a lower pixel density (the Mini actually had slightly higher ppi) or anything else. There simply is no sufficient market, the 13 Mini was the worst selling phone in that generation by a frankly impressive margin. 38% for iPhone 13 vs 3% for iPhone 13 mini, despite them being as close to just being scaled down and otherwise identical as one can make a phone speaks a very clear language that any manufacturer wanting to succeed has hear loud and clear. Most certainly why Asus has seized with their more compact smartphones. The amount of people I know that praised Asus for making a more compact flagship with a very large battery [2] was not in any way proportional to their sales. In this case, the battery life was actually superior to many larger competitors. Same for my Xperia 5 V, the compact phone I bought and used at the time, cause I walk my talk and have been following phone releases to a sufficient degree that I can assure everyone, there have been and are flagship speced, compact phones with good battery life, that no one ever buys. I'd love more options in the market, heck, I use both the Xperia 5 and an iPhone 15 Pro Max in a Clicks case, either for different situations, so am on both sides as a consumer. Simply, the lack of any actual market demand beyond online comments makes that impossible, we need to be honest here.
[0] https://www.apple.com/by/iphone-13/specs/
[1] https://www.macrumors.com/2022/04/21/iphone-13-mini-unpopula...
[2] https://www.asus.com/mobile-handhelds/phones/zenfone/zenfone...
---
1. Yes, I understand that these features were present in other phones, but the SE was the last phone actively sold by Apple that had them
There are a lot of people who probably would've bought the mini but instead of opted for the SE because battery life degraded so quickly.
The only thing that used less power on the mini was the smaller screen, but that doesn't save enough power to make up for a physically smaller battery.
That said I wish they'd release a thicker version to compensate
Per my suggestion, Apple should have scrapped the 13 Mini completely and instead offered a 13 Pro Compact for $999. Or maybe even $1049 if it had a bigger battery than the standard Pro model. The profit would have been much higher per unit than the 13 Mini, and I imagine they might have sold more units as well.
I’m typing this on a 13 Mini, and I would have paid an extra $400 for a better camera and more battery life. Before I had this phone, I bought a 15 Pro, used it for a week, and returned it because it was uncomfortably large.
> Combined, all four iPhone 13 models made up 71 percent of iPhone sales, with the standard 6.1-inch iPhone 13 responsible for 38 percent of sales. The iPhone 13 Pro and Pro Max weren't quite as popular as the iPhone 13, but sold much better than the iPhone 13 mini.
In fact, the iPhone 13 alone sold more (38%) than the iPhone 13 Pro and iPhone 13 Pro Max combined (30%). The plain old 13 was the most popular SKU, because no, most people do in fact not spend more for an added telephoto camera only a specific few have a true need for. The regular non Pro iPhone has across most years been the best seller, because it is a solid middle ground for the vast majority of people, making it the best basis for a small SKU to have any hope of succeeding. A 13 Pro Compact would have absolutely sold as poorly, maybe even worse than the 13 mini, considering both Pros did not outsell the regular 13 by itself. But even if a 13 Pro Compact had sold twice as well as the 13 mini (a very generous assumption considering it would have been 300usd more expensive), that would still be only 6% of total sales, a drop in the bucket.
Lastly, there are the Xperia 5s and there have been the Zenfones, both having better battery life than their large competitors, both being as (un)popular as Apples efforts.
Again, I like small smartphones, I'd love there to be a significant market for them. There simply is no way to look at the data and claim there is one beyond a tiny niche that a company such as Apple cannot realistically serve.
Apple tried converting their most successful SKU into a small smartphone. That failed to sell even a tenth of its large brother, despite being 100usd cheaper.
Sony literally scales their flagship down and gives it better battery life. Not really a success either.
ASUS made their own, fully dedicated line of compact smartphones which again, had better battery life than most large competitors and even included a 3.5mm jack, getting a second niche of customers to bolster sales. They too saw so few sales that they were forced to pivot to gigantic phones.
No matter what conditions, no matter how favorable, the same result.
https://www.gsmarena.com/asus_zenfone_9-11656.php
You're being willfully obtuse here. It is the smaller version of the cheaper version of the iPhone. It's not a small pro, and that's what the original person was talking about.
No, the vast majority of people use their phones as video viewers, increasingly so after the rise of TikTok. I have family members in their 30s who don't have laptops or TVs, all media is consumed through their phone, and for most kids/teens across the world it is their primary video consumption device.
The average person is trying to maximize screen size relative to portability. And the market is everyone on earth. That's it.
Don’t take me wrong: I do agree that "the vast majority of people use their phones as video viewers", but the duration/day is not uniform and many don’t want/need to carry a half-tablet all day long in case someone shared a tiktok on the messaging group.
That's not relevant, as this is then forming our decision at the point-of-sale towards a media consumption device.
> many don’t want/need to carry a half-tablet all day long in case someone shared a tiktok on the messaging group.
Only while no media is consumed. Many people take less than one photo a day on average, but still the camera quality is a dominant decision-factor.
I'd even argue that the majority of price-premium paid by a customer today is for camera and display. Those will be the factors at the point of sale to decide whether to pay 50-100 USD more or not...
That is one thing that is more disgusting about using a smart phone now days. When iPhone first came out it is about a music player and phone with extra features to facilitate real life things.
I don't want a freaking small computer in my pocket, and looking at small screens for long period of time is just NOT good for our eyes or postural.
We need to start treat these small devices as something we interact with very occasionally to facilitate real life interaction, not get our face stuck to it.
Not that working on laptop or workstation is much better, but it is better than writing on and viewing a video on small screen.
https://www.samsung.com/us/smartphones/galaxy-z-flip7/buy/ga...
This kind of over-generalization is always annoying me deeply.
Of course there IS a market for such a product, because at the very least I exist (as well as a good fraction of the 320 other people from HN who upvoted this submission so far).
The problem is that this market is tiny, and even a smaller share of this market is willing to make massive concessions on other aspects of the phone to have a smaller phone, so you end up with a much harder design space (because size is a big engineering constraint) for a minority market, and the endeavor is often not profitable enough for that reason.
It doesn't mean there's no market, it just means addressing this particular market is a tough business, these two statements aren't equivalent.
Show me the tiny Android flagship from the past 5 years that didn't sell well. (You can't, because there wasn't one.)
According to this article
> The ASUS Zenfone 10 is a compact flagship Android phone from ASUS. Sporting a little 5.9-inch display
Though you have to argue it's not tiny. (Don't think it sold all that well, though, at least not mainstream.)
If we're counting 5.9" we might as well count the Galaxy S series at 6.1". (My choice of phone, incidentally.)
https://www.gsmarena.com/asus_zenfone_10-12380.php
Yeah, because in the 5 years before that, the much MUCH more diverse Smartphone industry tried to make it work for several YEARS and failed.
Of all companies, Sony had the longest stamina, releasing 5 generations of 'compact' flagship devices.
If there would have been a sufficiently sized market for that, they would have continued and grown. In reality their business decreased every year.
Today the Smartphone is dominantly a media-consumption device, the only viable answer to "tiny Android flagship" is now a foldable like the Galaxy Flip.
Currently, foldable smartphones (the flip phone ones) seem to be the fashionable alternative to small phones, but they're even more expensive than the huge ones.
[0]: when Steve Jobs still ran the company at least
I had one and loved it.
Which is a shame, because I can sympathize with most of these requests.
I want something like Kick-starter which operates the same way but isn't meant for funding the creator to get the upfront capital investment - just avoiding existing companies getting burned out of the "let's listen to a niche slice of our customers instead of appealing to the masses" mindset. Companies put up a weird product proposal and see if enough people will commit to buying it to at least break even.
Then, if there's enough of a commitment, those people get something they actually want. If there's not enough, then there's a specific reason that you can point to to explain why.
This is almost equivalent to the normal market model (people buy things they want, and niche products don't get made much), except with a more explicit feedback step, to help people realize that if they don't actually put their money where their mouth is, then things won't get made.
There's probably a better way to do this, but I'm not sure how. Ultimately I just want my non-electronic electric car.
My original point was that I expect a big difference in people's stated vs observed preference on this one.
Maybe if it was priced like a Nissan Versa.
Be aware that you'd need to live in a place with very good public charging infrastructure due to the ~220 km range. The infrastructure is there here in Denmark where I live and daily-drive a 2017 Ioniq.
All-in-all the Ioniq sold well enough that Hyundai release a facelift in 2020. And the most recent facelifts of the successor-Ioniqs (5 and 6) have moved back to a more button-based interface (AFAIK).
Within one year, the screen size of nearly all mass-market smartphones took a huge bump from 5.x" to 6.5", because of two ODMs (device manufacturers who are contracted by big brands to design and produce smartphones). Those two ODMs won contracts to produce mass-market devices for the brands Lenovo/Motorola, Huawei and Xiaomi based on a 6.5" 720p LCD.
The total volume forecast was so big, that suddenly 6.5" displays were cheaper than any other 720p smartphone panel. Other Smartphone brands adjusted mid-development because the larger panel also made the PCBs and batteries cheaper. In that year, mass-market devices with 1080p displays were often smaller (which was contradictory for a vendor-portfolio until then) because there was no such economics of scale on higher-resolution panels.
So within a single year, displays got a full inch larger, not because the consumer demanded it but because of supply-chain dynamics.
I'm starting to see the same trend with laptops without a keyboard now. There's an entire generation of 8-16 yos who never used a keyboard and type fast on ipad screens. In a decade, it's a real possibility that keyboardless laptops become the standard...
Isn't called a tablet? ;)
I bought Motorola Droid 4 when it came out. I was so desperate to have a new phone with physical QWERTY, that I bought it blindly, even though it wasn't available in Europe, even though I have never seen it, even though I knew it *didn't support mobile networks* in Europe for a few months, to be fixed by an update. I had to use a coworker who was going on vacation to Florida.
When it arrived, the first thing I saw was that the black screen during boot shines bright blueish, horribly bad contrast. Then when image appeared, I've learned that it has two subpixels per image pixel, for efficiency. This made single color areas show the pixels very visibly.
Then I took a photo. The quality reminded me of a Sony Ericsson Walkman phone I had 6 years back, except the colors were much worse. Everything was blueish. It had a physical (touch) "search" button below the screen, but companies like Google didn't seem to understand why it would be useful to search for anything, so most of their apps didn't react to it. Especially Gmail.
But hey, I could touch-type any long message, and I could use SSH client conveniently (it even had a physical CTRL button).
Other than the keyboard (pretty solid too), it was one of the worst phones I ever had. So yeah, based on that model the market decided that "nobody wants keyboard phones", and the Droid 5 never came out.
Because it's easy to blame the most standing out feature.
This is an odd conclusion considering that the Droid 4 was already the FOURTH iteration of a QWERTY device from that ONE brand on that ONE carrier, each iteration selling less than the one before as each faced more competition.
If you're interested, the actual reason for the end of the Droid QWERTY series was that the entire "Droid" brand was a Verizon-exclusive product-line with a big focus in sales and big budget in Marketing, just to compete with the iPhone (which was not available on Verizon until 2011).
For a vendor to win a slot in that lineup meant that Verizon Sales and Marketing put all weight behind selling that device, no matter what device it is. This made the Droid 1 and 2 a huge success, not because of the product but because of the sales channel.
But in year 3 (2011), the iPhone launched on Verizon, which put a huge dent in both sales-focus and budget of Verizon's "Droid" product-line.
Later that year, Droid 3 launched but was selling significantly less than its predecessors.
In that year, Verizon instead sold 6.5m iPhones (up from ZERO iPhones the year before).
So Motorola had to cut their losses on the already ongoing development of the Droid 4, the device was redesigned for a much lower total sales-expectation and then launched in 2012.
But the sales turned out even lower than expected: By Q4 2012 Verizon sold 14m Smartphones, with 10m (!) of them being iPhones.
The most successful Motorola device of that year was the Droid RAZR MAXX HD, a non-QWERTY flagship.
It was clear: That QWERTY keyboard didn't drive sales.
The paying market for larger phones also contains the potential market for smaller phones.
There is no ADDITIONAL market in selling smaller phones, and not enough free market to make users switch brand for a smaller phone. So there is nothing to gain.
Crucially, even if 10% of the iPhone users want a smaller phone, they won't buy a smaller phone unless it's compatible to the iOS ecosystem. So roughly half of the market can only be effectively converted by Apple and for Apple it turned out to be not profitable enough to convert them.
But there aren't hundreds of millions of people like me. And the bar for "success" is selling that many units so it gets considered a "failure"
The bar appears too low to prospective customer because they lose nothing if they try this product but ultimately decide to not buy but for business it is clear loss.
This is like those mythical users who'd buy Macs once its fully hackable and officially support linux. Apple thinks it is just better to not serve those buyers.
Of all the people who prioritize those features when buying a new phone, only ~100k users end up buying a fairphone every YEAR.
A company like Samsung needs to produce roughly 10x this volume BEFORE launch just to fill their sellout channels, so their financial risk for a global ramp-up is much higher.
Apple apparently sold a couple million iPhone 13 minis. Ford reliably sold more than 100,000 Focus cars in the US annually before deciding to discontinue it. But Apple and Ford decided they were better served redirecting that engineering effort towards more profitable projects.
It just frustrating when these gaps occur and there's no smaller player to fill them. A couple million small smartphones or a couple hundred thousand compact cars sounds like enough to sustain a business, but it isn't enough for the big players to care, and small players can't affordably create a competitive offering.
I haven't upgraded yet.
Why does everyone (most of you too?) like bigger screens? The mini screen is big enough for HN, reddit, banking, photos, etc.
Although, it's not exactly what he wished for in 2022 since it doesn't run standard Android and obviously doesn't have industrial design like the iPhone mini.
Similar to the „ARTE effect“: When French TV audiences where polled, frequently around 10% responded, that they were watching Arte (an artsy government funded intelligentsia TV channel) on a daily basis.
yet the ratings rarely surpass 2%
As it stands the kind of people who want a smaller phone almost by definition need to be a bit savvier than the market in general to know such a thing still exists and along with that will have greater skepticism towards Android phones having any kind of post market support.
It'd basically have to come from Samsung to hit the all the price/quality/trust requirements. Feel like they've already got a lot of the pieces there with their corporate targeted XCover range just shrink them down a bit.
Blackberries? Granted, they failed but for a completely different reason.
I have no idea why that was the case and can't even speculate since I don't know enough about how the networks worked, but I would love to hear an explanation. I was pretty annoyed by the fact that I still needed to own what I considered a phablet, which was sitting collecting dust on my bedside table at home just so I could have the type of phone I really wanted. Seemed like a punishment-by-design for trying to step off the typical customer rails.
My tastes have changed slightly these days, and I'm okay with a 5.X" screen or whatever, but now I want it to be eInk or something similar and focus more on text/sms as I've gotten pretty minimalism with my phone use.
No. They were a) rare and b) much more expensive. AFAIK only Blackberry had a phone with QWERTY keyboard.
Buttons are much more expensive than a touchscreen (see cars for examples).
And... I love it and use it all the time. Into the pocket it goes, great for going out.
I would buy an iphone mini 16/17/18 no questions asked.
When it comes to the marketing side of things, I think back to a story where one of the soft drink companies tried to find the best soft drink taste. They found out that they couldn't optimize for the one true taste because... different people had different favorites.
I used the Palm Phone (PVG100) (3.3" screen) (basically the size of a credit card) [ https://www.ricklohre.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/dsc_097... ] as long as I could until it became too slow to use as software got slower and increasingly battery-hungry and I had to give it up last year.
Right now I have a Soyes S10Max, which has a 3.5" screen (same screen size as the original iPhone), but it's kinda chunky. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CRZ47T53?ref_=ppx_hzsearch_conn_...
The specs are more than strong enough to handle whatever I need on a daily basis. But I miss the slimmer size of the Palm Phone.
Right now I've pre-ordered this phone https://aiphor.com/products/bluefox-nx1-4-0-android-smartpho... with the 8gigram+128gig storage capacity. Has an even stronger cpu than the Soyes, but I am slightly worried about the resolution of 540x1168px because some elements may end up overlapping.
Even though it's 4", it has a tiny bezel so it's only slightly bigger than the Palm Phone, although a bit thicker cuz of a bigger battery. But still relatively slim, especially compared to the Soyes.
Front comparison: https://preview.redd.it/dtwnubx05scf1.png?width=3840&format=...
https://preview.redd.it/s2391amd7hbf1.png?width=320&crop=sma...
Will see!
(By the way from some reason aiphor.com automatically redirects me to google.com unless I disable Javascript.)
But I'll write a review on reddit once I've used it for a week or two.
No clue on aiphor.com, webdevs (or their managers) love javascript lol
The only other option that I've toyed with is buying a small feature/"dumb" phone for going in the pocket and a smartphone in a bag, which seems less ideal.
Yeah for those people, they would need a beefier phone. That's certainly not me, I have devices at home. In my case, a pure dumb phone isn't of much use to me either, I make maybe one or two phone calls most months, but I've always used my phone as more of a borderline feature phone.
>a full PC or larger phone/tablet for ticketmaster.
The problem with ticketmaster is that you need to use it at the events themselves. Most events no longer use physical tickets. But a stronger phone or tablet won't help you here. Even on a high-end phone, ticketmaster will somehow forget to store your login information while you have poor network connectivity due to tons of people in the area, even if you try to load your tickets ahead of time to avoid the issue (although somehow they always deliver ads!). Everyone complains about ticketmaster's fees, but the app is the worst part.
An even slightly more mid-range spin on this would be very very viable.
They only have 4G rather than 5G. This has not bothered me but perhaps it would bother others.
If you check /r/smallphones I'll post a review of the NX1 in a couple months (or whenever I get it + a week or two). It looks like the closest spiritual successor to the Palm Phone (although the single button on the foot with multiple actions will probably never be beat)
the article's "small phone" benchmark with a 5.4" screen is almost the same size in every dimension as your benchmark of the HTC 8x
https://www.phonearena.com/phones/size/HTC-8XT,Apple-iPhone-...
This is true, and it's hard to fully assess without a tool like you linked, which is pretty neat.
>the article's "small phone" benchmark with a 5.4" screen is almost the same size in every dimension as your benchmark of the HTC 8x
But as mentioned, I don't consider the 8X to be small. It's a standard-sized phone in my eyes.
People comparing old smartphone diagonal screen measurements to modern ones as if they're equivalent is a huge pet peeve for me. Diagonals are a horrible way to measure screens.
Huh, for some reason, this page loads properly and I can see it for 1-2 seconds, but it seems like as soon as it's done loading, it redirects me to google.com. Based in Spain, so guessing it's their way of turning away EU or European customers I guess?
Most people only use computers at work, solely relying on smartphones for communication, media, shopping, etc.
It makes sense to have a big screen at inconvenience of having to carry it around.
What surprises me is how small the demand for small phones is. I have absolutely no need for a big screen - I have a monitor.
A lot of us do, yes.
> and carry a bag everywhere?
As a guy in 36" waist jeans (yeah I need to lose a few kg)... I can fit an iphone 16 pro max in my pocket pretty comfortably.
> Why do people want these giant phones?
Well, one reason is that I'm getting older and don't find it as easy to read tiny text on tiny screens any more. Another reason is that I sometimes watch streaming services on there.
Also it's shiny and the battery lasts forever.
They have to because of stupid pinch-to-zoom. You either have to balance the phone in the palm of your non-dominant hand (literally switch the phone from one hand to the other) while pinching with your dominant hand, or do a sort of goatse thing with your thumbs while holding the phone in both hands.
Screw-to-zoom is a million times better: draw a spiral to the right and you get closer, spiral to the left and you get farther away (agreeing with the "righty-tighty, lefty-loosey" standard.) Easily done with any single finger, or even with the thumb of the hand holding the phone (for people with adequate thumb-wrestling skills.)
https://blog.bschwind.com/2025/01/11/the-original-iphone-se-...
If you are interested, Unihertz launched the titan 2 and it's pretty nice, but no waterproofing or wireless charging are big issues for me.
I found using the browser is a good enough alternative for many apps, and it also makes them less addictive because they aren’t as slick. Particularly handy for work apps.
Mine actually broke ages ago but I've just gotten used to using TouchAssist.
I ended up getting a newer SE (2022), but I miss the first one.
A friend jokingly calls it my "microphone", another a "prison phone" (due to its size allowing for more easily smuggling in body cavities). Occasionally I go to mobile phone shops and ask if they have a case for it just for the fun of seeing the look on their faces when they see it (I don't actually want a case, and in fact it came with one which I threw in the bin).
Personally, I couldn't be happier with it.
Only problems: they don't do software updates; camera is poor; non-OLED screen.
In an ideal world I'd have a slightly bigger phone, but not too much bigger. I've grown very fond of this phone.
I'd consider that an advantage: No burn-in.
AFAIK, the hardware still suffers from that problem, but it's been fixed in most devices by software fixes. Instead of displaying the exactly same content 24/7, it has "cleaning programs" or similar to runs once in a while to prevent the burn in from happening. Our OLED TV does the same I think too.
My personal device is a Motorola Razr 50 Ultra, which I got because while it's huge when flipped, it's portable enough when it's closed. I can have it in my pocket without it falling out.. without it being annoying while i put on shoes etc...
I use its cover screen a fair amount too, to avoid having to flip it open, which is also why I got the ultra rather than the slightly smaller version.
While it did get a tiny bit bigger I wouldn’t have noticed this u less you would look up the spec, especially as it got lighter from 204g [1] to 199g [2] at the same time.
[1] https://support.apple.com/en-us/111871 [2] https://www.apple.com/iphone-16-pro/specs/
There are some decent small Android phones, if you're willing to buy non-mainstream brands. Take a look at:
Certainly iOS 26 appears to be supported.
In addition to being small, with SD card and 3.5mm jack, it is water resistant and has a removable battery. It is also one of the most robust non-hardened phones. It has an IR blaster too if it matters to you.
It was a time when Samsung was known for its gimmicks, the one for the Galaxy S5 is "Air View", where it recognizes your finger hovers over the screen. It is actually a good one, because it supports the "hover" targets in web pages!
Most people find it ugly though, and I tend to agree, but if you use a case, like most people do, who cares what the phone inside looks like?
My current Xperia 5 maintains battery temperature around 10°C above ambient during fast charging and since it easily lasts the whole day in the 30-80% charge regime, I believe it will outlast other components.
Re: TFA, I'm all for filling the small phone niche, but there's no way I'm paying a cent over $500 for a phone with no resale value.
It is only going to get worse. Most of us who were young adults when the iPhone was announced are in our 40s now, and presbyopia is a real thing. In a few years my daily QOL will be better served by a bigger phone and I suspect many people around my age are feeling the same thing. The "small electronic accessory I bring around" niche will be filled by smartwatches.
[0] https://www.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/dijok5/is_there_a_... (how quaint the prices look, a mere 6 years on)
It's OK if they just make one every couple of years. But please: at least every couple of years.
When idle GSM uses a lot of power. Listening for a wakeup signal doesnt seem expensive at all. It even seems one could pull off the trick for free.
Free < bluetooth < wifi < gsm
There shall be e-paper ofc
The brick can have a battery like that of a quality powerbank. For emergency charging the display snaps on top with some magnets.
There will be heavy cpu loads with lots of reads and writes.
Think a room full of people hammering the media server.
Host websites on it. Imagine the fun!
GPUs may work quite hard to decode and fit the picture on the screen. How to do io better is left as an exersize for the reader. (这意味着你)
Whatever components we can get rid of buys extra space for the battery.
It also makes the handheld device cheaper to replace.
You may swap the battery or have a spare.(slide the empty one into the brick)
You may also break or lose it. It can conveniently be replaced. Nothing important is stored on it.
Lets make them with and without cameras. Imagine the opportunity to not make photos :)
Playing games or using the CPU+GPU module as a media server is a 1%-of-the-time use-case. If you want this architecture to not need a lot of battery in the display module, it needs to be low-power for the 99%-of-the-time use-case: scrolling a webpage.
(This is basically the classical thin-client / fat-client paradox: thin clients save on power right until you want them to do anything continuously. Then the IO costs outweigh the hypothetical costs of localizing that continuous CPU/GPU activity by pushing it down into a fat client.)
No offense but it sounds like you simply refuse to look for anything interesting in the concept. Or you forgot to mention it. HN the tech website where we collectively try to shoot everything down. haha
You can certainly add the CPU/GPU module — it's just a NUC with a battery strapped to it, essentially — but if doing so doesn't make the display module lighter-weight and longer-lasting than a smartphone for what people tend to use a smartphone for, then I don't see what I gain by carrying it.
Remember that the conversation here is in the context of an OP about mini-sized phones; everyone in the thread is presuming your point had something to do with the separating-out of compute from other tasks resulting in the "terminals" you mentioned, becoming more like the "iPhone Mini-sized Android Phone" referenced in the OP. You did seem to imply this rhetorically, phrasing your desire as those terminals being "nothing more than" components X/Y/Z — as if this would imply they could be lighter-weight, etc.
But if you concede that even with your Personal-Area-Network (PAN) compute-offload module, the smartphone-sized display module effectively still needs to be a smartphone in order to be a "fat client when that is advantageous", with all that that implies... then you've lost the interest of everyone here, who were all hoping you were proposing some sort of key perspective shift that would allow for smaller, thinner, lighter, longer-lasting smartphones.
---
And to be clear, I do understand why you would want a PAN compute-offload module; that was a concept tossed around quite a bit in futurology circles ~10 years ago. But the zeitgeist has moved on — 5G came along, designed specifically to address the need to carry around such a brick.
In the modern version of this architecture, your PAN's compute-offload either lives in your house/car/etc., or is just some cloud VPS you're renting — either explicitly, or implicitly through amortization of big hardware payments into an implicit subscription (as with e.g. the Apple Intelligence compute cluster.) The rest of your PAN then uses offloads compute by pushing workloads to it through cellular radio; this is practical because the cells for the cellular radio in question are omnipresent enough [and thereby, the handset side of the connection low-wattage enough], and the protocol non-chatty enough, that having such a radio "up" but idle doesn't burn much battery — so every PAN device can afford to do it.
That's a landline phone, you can buy it for cheap.
And, this is trivially satisfied with a $10 extension cord.
Also, if you want really small device, I found smartwatches are nice adjunct to phone. Can check notifications and do basic things on watch instead of pulling out phone. The watch uses phone for data, but there is no point in terminals when smartwatch chip can handle that. There are watches with LTE that work without the phone.
I want an iPhone Mini-sized Android phone - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31411191 - May 2022 (1053 comments)
I cannot justify $700 as much as I _really want a smaller phone_. But _maybe if it was built to last_ I would be the customer and I would tell all my friends.
Currently use a Pixel 7a because it was cheap and OK. I was debating the iPhone 12 mini but it was already a little old, and I prefer Android.
I suspect, if others are like me, that those who want small phones also just want something that works and is a little minimal - not necessarily all the power best camera etc. To be clear, I _don't_ want one of those minimalist dumbphones, I want _a smartphone_ that's small Do y'all feel the same?
Propose a $500 small phone that's OK on specs but LASTS.
Actually, looking at that handy link you provided, it appears the 13 mini is basically that. Discontinued in 2023 : /
I was convinced you were wrong but that's correct. The Mini is much smaller and the Zenfone is about the same size as the regular iPhone.
Zenphones until the 10 had easy to unlock bootloaders, leading to long in official support by the community. However with the 10 ASUS stopped that tool and they've been lying ever since that they're still working on it.
My zenfone is now on its final major android update, the rather minor android 15 version, and I've only got two years of security updates left until I need to look for a new phone. That's one thousand euros for barely four years of software support, it's such a disappointment.
That aside the camera is lackluster, it's auto whitebalance is horrific, turning the same snowy scene into a sunset or illuminated by fluorescent light depending on the phase of the moon and it's sampling questionable making images much more blurry in a surreal way. But the optical stabilisation is seriously impressive. Overall I preferred the pixel 4a's images though. A smaller phone and my zenfone's predecessor.
At least I get to just plug it into my stereo thanks to the 3.5mm jack though.
Thumbs up on the headphone jack though. Can't fault it there.
iPhone 16/Zenfone/13 Mini (in mm)
Height: 147.6/146.5/131.5 - the mini is 15mm shorter than the Zenfone which is only 1.1mm shorter than an iPhone.
Width: 71.6/68.1/64.2 - the mini is 3.9mm thinner than the Zenfone which is 3.5mm thinner than an iPhone
Depth: 7.8/9.4/7.7 - the Zenfone is significantly thicker than the iPhones.
Volume: 82.4/93.8/65.0 cubic cm - the Zenfone is physically larger than an iPhone 16 by a decent margin.
The Zenfone simply isn't close to an iPhone mini size. It's larger than an iPhone by volume and the depth does matter when holding it. If we're talking about front-edge to opposite front-edge, we're talking about 87.2mm for the iPhone vs 86.9mm for the Zenfone and 79.6 for the Mini. The Zenfone saves you 0.3mm in grip-distance over an iPhone, but a Mini saves you 7.6mm in grip-distance.
Heck, let's look at weight. A Zenfone is 172g, iPhone 170g, iPhone mini 141g. The Zenfone is the heaviest of the three.
One of the big limiting factors for Android phone manufacturers is the battery. iOS is a ton more efficient. The Zenfone is thicker to accommodate a 4300mAh battery compared to the iPhone 16's 3561mAh (21% larger battery). And the Zenfone's battery is kinda small by Android standards.
People often don't think about the challenges of making a small phone. The electronics don't shrink. If you need a certain square mm for those electronics, they take up a larger percentage of the interior on your mini. You don't need as large a battery because the screen it is powering is smaller, but not proportional to its size - you're still drawing the same power for all the electronics. So you have a smaller percentage of interior space for the battery and you need a larger battery relative to the interior space - or you need to sacrifice battery life as Apple did with the mini.
For example, the iPhone 13 mini is 84.4 sq cm and has a 2438mAh battery. The iPhone 13 is 104.9 sq cm with a 3240mAh battery. The iPhone 13 is 24% larger, but can accommodate a 33% larger battery - because the electronics take up basically the same space regardless of form factor.
So to make an Android mini, you'd be sacrificing a lot of battery life. The Zenfone is not a mini. Its grip-size is basically identical to an iPhone. In every way, it's much more an iPhone than a mini.
iPhone 6S: 138.3/67.1/7.1 = 65.9 cc the mini is just barely smaller.
iPhone 4S: 115.2/58.6/9.3 = 62.8 cc smaller than the mini.
Treo 650: 113/59/23 = 153 cc which is about the same volume as a Galaxy Z Fold 3... the displacement was so uncomfortable, people often used hip holsters for the former.
and end-up only Sony products comes out. and I sacrificed performance for a shorter phone so I bought Xperia Ace III.
but I don't know when will my ISP shutdown GSM-1800. If this happens I have to buy Xperia 10 series then.
https://www.gizchina.com/2013/11/07/jiayu-g5-unboxing-hands-...
https://www.gizchina.com/2013/09/18/exclusive-hands-video-st...
https://www.gizmochina.com/2013/09/22/teardown-picture-jiayu...
That was the "peak smartphone" era for me; lots of companies making slightly different variations on Androids, at relatively low prices, but almost all of them with the same basic set of practical features which are nearly extinct today. Now it seems all we get are faster CPUs and RAM, more (non-removable) storage and battery capacity, no headphone jacks, a very limited choice of screen sizes, and far too many cameras along with the obligatory unremovable spyware and locked-down OS.
Basically you have to make compromises on performance and camera and then this was, what i came up with: - Zenfone 10 (flagship with prices still above launch price (!), which soon gets no updates anymore) - Unihertz Jelly Max (small, but thick and bad camera) - Rakuten Hand 5G and Rakuten Mini (also bad camera and older Android) - Balmuda Phone (which i really like, but also bad camera and discontinued, so probably not even security updates and no custom rom support) - Bluefox NX1 (really tempting, but appearantly kind of bad build quality and no NFC)
All other options are even older phones. Samsung S25 line does exist, but i really like vanilla Android. I think the price chart of the Zenfone DOES somehow indicates the existence of a market and i wonder if it would be big enough for a small niche player!?
Personally I am considering a pixel 8, which is the "smallest" of current phones, but it still really isn't small. And i don't see myself as a Google customer because of the battery topic...
I personally would have been more happy had Eric made a small android phone instead of the new pebble, but hey...
Any other current gen recommendations?
https://www.androidauthority.com/samsung-galaxy-s26-screen-s...
Also don't forget to account for case to protect that beautiful glossy slippery fragile back of your Samsung phone.
ZF doesn't need any case.
Ended up with Galaxy S25 which weighs around 165g.
I pretty much hate Samsung for the One UI interface taking away the stock Android experience. If I could turn it all off I'd do it in a heartbeat.
But I put up with it because there is no other Android phone in 2025 that meets all the checkboxes (less than ~180g, supports all the current LTE and 5G comms, supported by the vendor).
I recommend the pixel 4a 5g with LineageOS installed, or the Q9 mini.
I have it since more than a year. I had the first one two weeks because I lost it as it fall through a hole in my pocket. So fix your pockets and buy this phone. I'm really happy with it :) And didn't found bugs since I have it.
I beg to differ. How much marketing money did Apple spend on the mini line, in comparison to the "standard" size ?
> And when launched - no one buys it.
Pixel 3 and 4a are still the most sold phones in the Pixel line.
The news when Pixel7 was launched:
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/gadgets-news/this-is-the...
I would've bought the 13 Mini Pro if it had existed, but camera quality wasn't something I was willing to compromise on.
In my mind, these companies are all so massive they can afford a little fragmentation for the obviously small market, with no meaningful impact to their sales numbers or profits.
On the iPhone minis, there's very obviously a market for them, but the market is so small compared to the market for "all iPhones" that it practically vanishes in comparison, which leads Apple to not bother. Is it really that expensive to maintain a more niche line for each generation?
Think of just the work that goes into having an assembly line customized for a specific form factor. To keep price, quality, and profit in line with their other phones I think the answer here is clearly yes.
(Numbers made up to illustrate the point)
Quick search for just display size found these 10 phones released after 2023: https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?nYearMin=2023&fDisplay...
* A phone, not a watch
* Android 14 or later OS
* Thickness: 9mm max
* Height: 150mm max
* Width: 71mm max
and three of them are the overpriced Samsung Galaxy S phones. Only 7 released since 2020:
https://www.gsmarena.com/search.php3?nYearMin=2020&nHeightMa...
and they are Samsung Galaxy S's, a couple of Asus ZenFone's, and Google Pixel 5.
If you're willing to add another 5mm, there are also a couple of Sony Xperia's and Sharp Aquous, and Google Pixel 8. And if you want to cap the height at 145 mm - it's just Google Pixel 5.
My favorite to take with me is the 13 Mini. Would love an iPhone 18 mini.
I used to have a Pixel 5. As somebody who uses phones minimally (<10 min average screentime per day), but still wants utilities beyond a feature phone for special use cases (maps, translate, digital tickets, public transport, NFC payments), it was about as small as I needed it to be to tuck it away in my pocket for the whole day. It was also quite a nice form factor with a black stone-like back case, which didn't seem to scuff or attract fingerprints.
I had two of them. The first one lasted 2 years before the battery swelled up and I had to dispose of it. Google replaced it for free with another. Then eventually Google Pay stopped being supported on the second, since it was a few years beyond security updates.
After that I found no alternative within the Android ecosystem. I don't want to get into Apple products (despite minimal use, I did have the phone customised so that it was stripped bare in terms of apps and notifications, and had a launcher which I preferred over Google's native design), and every tech blog talking about small phones led back to Pixel 5, or one of the ones just after which was also out of sale and security coverage.
Even though they are sold at profit, I get the feeling phones are viewed by the industry as vehicles. Get one with a big screen into peoples hands, then keep riding on the payments for games, movies, TV and web browsing that follows that. As somebody who never used my phone for any of these things, I'm clearly not important to the market for the one-off payment of a new phone every 5/6 years.
The issue I received when tapping to pay was "Your phone doesn't meet software standards". It did mention it can be due to rooting (my phone wasn't rooted) or "uncertified software" (of which I didn't have any).
I'm sure you might already do so, but I'd advise not to rely on the phone to pay going forward. For me, I was caught off guard in a shop without any other payment method. There was no warning or notification about the change until I tapped to pay at the card terminal.
I tried a few more times afterwards with another payment method as backup, and it never worked again, even after rebooting, toggling NFC off and on. I never received an email, notification or warning in the app itself. It was quite disappointing as I reckon I could have run that phone for a few more years as a minimal phone.
Google did offer me about £100 off of a new Pixel. So if this happens to you and the lack of Google Pay is a dealbreaker, I'd give that a try.
In hindsight, I really miss using the Pixel 5 and semi-wish that I'd kept using it and just switched Google Pay/Wallet for card. The form factor and size was perfect.
I changed to a Pixel 9 because I had an opportunity around the same time to get it cheaper, and thought I may as well go to the latest model to keep security updates up to 2030. Even after a few months, I can't get used to the weight, size, the back case design (slippery glass and fingerprint magnet), and sticking out camera block. I still use the phone minimally, but now I carry around a brick everyday.
Btw:
1. Unihertz recently launched a BlackBerry esque phone (titan 2), if anyone reading this is interested. (Not sponsored by them)
2. There are many forums (and I think r/smallphones on reddit) where you can find much more discussion on such topics if you're interested.
If Unihertz kept their phones up to date for a few years after launch, rather than only for the few years prior to launch, they would be an incredibly strong competitor in this space but as they are they are next to useless.
Get used to making calls on a TV tray, and walking around looking like a schlub in cargo shorts for the rest of your life.
Screen power draw and battery capacity scale as the square of the linear dimension. They largely cancel out.
However, all the other hardware are a fixed size so proportionally large phones have longer battery lives.
Like internal component can be rearranged to an extent, and battery is a tradeoff, but the panel need to be one on the market, no demand, no panel
I say this as someone who clung onto his 1st gen SE until I got my current 13 mini
I can.
Nothing will make happier than ditching Apple and get a smaller Android phone. In fact the size of iPhone 5s was the only reason that had piqued my interest and I had migrated to the iPhones. Then I stayed for other (and important) reasons.
> Stock Android OS
Ah, no. I take that back. That is not going to be worth 700-800 just for the size! In fact take more and put it to a fight which tries to force Google to "decolonise" every aspect of this mobile OS and push for apps to go for alternative app stores.
But as long as Google has it claws and fingers and feet and palm and teeth (imagine every other organ) into my data (and also existence via sensors and what not) on an Android phone in every way possible (sometimes not even imaginable), such pervasive and entangled, that getting out of this Kafkaesque privacy nightmare means using a custom ROM that no OEM supports (or probably will every support) and half the app I use (including bank/payment/Govt apps) will stop functioning and it makes me feel like puking - even the thought of being tracked like that non-stop!
Until then sadly I will contribute to the trillions of Apple and participate in this cozy duopoly these companies have established and rather be in this Kafkaesque control and closed walled garden. It is sad.
So no, I am done with "Stock Android OS" trope at this point :(
The reality is - and it is a sad truth - such a phone in today's world can only exist as a vanity/niche product and hence even with high cost it will suffer from lack of support, abandoned update/upgrade promises, and a really really bad support experience unless it is released to "just few cities" (not even few countries) because this is going to attract such a small number of people!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android_Marshmallow#/media/Fil...
I particularly despise the way Samsung wants to use impose a "bulging squircle" icon shape and I always find a way to override that (Nova Launcher still works well for this use case).
The OP was complaining that the author of the page wants "stock android". On a production device, you can either have 1) the manufacturer's custom version of Androi, 2) a near-stock Android, or 3) your own custom version but with all the usual issue that brings. There is no secret fourth option. So I don't see what the OP's complaint is trying to achieve.
On those lines I don't get any of the points you are trying to make (assuming you are) either. So maybe it's an hn thing.
It doesn't have the Google Play Store but one can sideload Android apps onto it
Smaller size means smaller battery, but that's mitigated by the above. I want utilitarian. I don't want a phablet. I want practical and unobtrusive. The smartwatch was meant to replace the phone, but doesn't hit the right notes for me.
Then, realistically, you need to make sure that apps you do want to use do still offer functioning Android builds for what's almost certainly going to be an older version of Android running on a keitei. You might really struggle with banking apps due to this (despite plenty of keitei having NFC!), it depends on your bank's policies. You might also struggle with any official government apps if they force a recent version of Android.
If it's Android, you can almost certainly run it in English, but beware any obscure outliers who heavily customize their ROMs and save space by removing other languages (few and far between, but they apparently do exist and can bite you on the ass if you don't read Japanese!).
You'll probably really struggle to make it work for you overall if you don't live in Japan where this kind of phone is still expected to be supported. There's some beautiful phones, absolutely gorgeous designs in fact, but the above are a total pain in the arse and is what's made it non-viable for me (what forced me over to a Pixel 6a on release). The Pixel 6a getting a firmware update today that affected my battery (https://support.google.com/pixelphone/answer/16340779?hl=en) is why I'm pining after another keitei, but I don't think there's anything that can tick the necessary boxes for me. I'm gutted!
There are some nice ones that have dual-screens, touchscreens, and touch-sensitive capacitive keypads for scrolling or navigation. Some can be folded to be used like a standard touch-only candybar style phone if you don't want to use the keypad. Some allow the display to be rotated, but those are very uncommon these days.
I hear Gen Z loves retro flip phones as they are less intrusive and more sensible with swappable batteries, built-in screen protection et al, so perhaps there's a potential market fit for something in the West that ticks these very specific boxes.
The funny thing is that I look at the average side-opening book-style wallet-esque case for candybar style touch phones in the West and they're basically recreating the beefits of flip phones with the hinged screen cover cases, but without much of the impact protection.
I'm not a luddite by any means, I'm not even nostalgic for flip phones in any way, I just think that I've realized there's pros and cons to both, and the current offerings available in the West don't really suit me.
Most popular phones in Japan these days in terms of units sold? iPhone and Pixel. That's what's killing the "Galapogos syndrome" keitei in terms of new models! A few friends I have in Japan find the candybar form-factor to be novel and cool, and others want larger screens for media, specific iOS-exclusive apps. or just enjoy the Apple ecosystem as they use a Mac for their work and play. They do tend to agree that there's pros and cons to both though! Pixel trails after the iPhone in numbers BTW.
I wonder if any were ever designed with a ThinkPad like aesthetic.
I have been saying for a few years now that I want the "classic ThinkPad of phones" with readily available parts, sensible design choices (drainage holes on ThinkPads were a boon! Same with quickly swappable battery handles!) and some kind of afterlife that goes beyond whatever the manufacturer or OS developer decides it is going to be.
To my knowledge of keitei, there aren't any Richard Sapper-ish ThinkPad-styled ones, but you do occasionally see red flourishes like the ThinkPad nurple/TrackPoint, but they're usually on things like a SIM card tray, but not generally contrasted by black, but similar impact to Sapper's distinctive style.
I love me some utilitarian industrial design—I think that's what I'm searching for in modern phones. Sadly, I think that mentality is leaving us as the likes of Sapper pop their clogs and take the mindset with them. It's definitely somewhat oldskool values buried amidst all this.
Sent from my modded classic ThinkPad next to Richard Sapper's '70s Artemide Tizio lamp with an aftermarket LED upgrade to make it energy efficient. :- )
Today, bluetooth works quite well for me (I love not having cables... but it sucks that performance with a microphone is trashfire). 3.5mm adapters are cheap and easy when needed (rarely. I also have a $10 bluetooth->3.5mm in my travel kit that does get used once a year!). And with usb-c providing fast charging, I rarely feel like I'd benefit from battery swaps. I can give myself 50%+ in 30 minutes, with a portable battery that will power not just my phone, but any other device I run into. With Qi 2.2 releasing with 25W wireless charging, and magnetic coupling being standard now, you don't even need wires anymore. Carrying a bespoke phone-only battery seems like a massive downgrade today. (It also felt like a massive fire hazard!) Time to update your expectations!
Worth mentioning that battery swaps make water-resistance much much trickier to pull off. There' a real cost to battery-swappability.
I do wish we saw something like Ara, some phone modularity & extensibility. Fairphone has some modular parts, but it doesn't feel like an open ecosystem, and the parts dont seem super designed for expansion but more just replacement. I guess maybe Framework is doing the best work, albeit in a bigger form factor space, with their Expansion Cards, which are basically just a card form factor USB-C. Licensed CC-BY-4. https://github.com/FrameworkComputer/ExpansionCards
Once upon a time, I had a Motorola A920 in the early '00s that came with a dock to put a second battery into to charge it (pre-CGM era of course), but something like that would be lovely when combined with a foldable or flip phone.
After Google pushed a firmware update to my Pixel 6a today, it definitely gives a feeling of vulnerability. https://support.google.com/pixelphone/answer/16340779?hl=en
Would love to recommend the Fairphone, but not available in every country. One of my cousins wanted one (his dad is diabetic too), but unfortunately not available to buy in Canada.
Hopefully Framework humour the idea of a phone at some point, but it'll be difficult to please everybody, and I'm not sure it's economically viable.
The Samsung XCover are mil-spec with swappable batteries (major selling point on their site) and don't struggle with being waterproof, so it can be done. I don't think it's as niche an idea as people would expect.
I excitedly followed the Ara for years! Was gutted it never amounted to anything.
So, uh, can I please have that but with a more modern SoC and a non-potato camera?
Still want my phone battery to be replaceable, but I'm pretty fine with not being able to do it myself.
I don't understand how the market isn't considered big enough for any phone OEM: how can it be smaller than that of foldables? Or even if it is, isn't it still big enough, and shouldn't there generally be more sizes and form factors of phones?
It's as tho the car industry decided to only make 184" long SUVs (6.2-6.7" phones) and 200" long 3-row SUVs (foldables)... no other SUVs, no sedans/hatchbacks, no sports cars (much smaller and much lower volume). And different cars are actually hard to engineer and mass-manufacture the chassis and bodies for... in contrast a phone's HW is inherently more modular and mostly just the screen and battery need to be changed for each size.
Convincing main brands to dump 100s of millions to cater to small phone crowd should be proven DOA by now. The minimalist EDC crowd is niche aberration, most people throughout civilization EDC was more cumbersome. Most people are simply happy carrying more shit around. Look at Stanley cups.
TBH 99% of big phone yucky crowd problems would be solved by a lanyard, but that's too goofy in the west. IMO what we need is better pockets. Front of legs or side belly of shirt. Have a little place to attach a chain like pocket watches. Fix for big phones is not a smaller phone, but better accessory/wardrobe.
And yes I do want smaller phones. Samsung S10e was the perfect size tbh.
But no it seems the option dwindle and now I can't find a phone smaller than my thumb. At least some phones have a "shrink screen" option, but that's not the same thing as a smaller phone tbh
This is only true for the American lifestyle of home-car-office-car-home. If you need to walk for more than 30 seconds Stanley cups become extremely inconvenient.
As plans develop during a day it's easy to end up being out of the house 12+ hours, so it's comfortable to have a refillable water bottle, warmer layers, sunglasses, hat, umbrella, any other comfort things etc.
Anyways, are you sure you're talking about the iPhone 16?
The foldables are such an interesting concept. I actually had a Surface Duo for a while (though a different style of foldable) and really liked it, but I only had one after they were a year old and I could try it out with a used phone for ~$200.
With Android working on including a "desktop mode" where you can add a screen and HID devices, I sure hope that the phone screens will get smaller again.
I tried all my reasoning skills to persuade her to stick with android, but ultimately she nagged me into getting a second hand one that is still way too expensive in my opinion.
Well it looks like she is right and this is popular opinion. Perhaps small Android phones not selling well is a marketing problem. I've never seen one advertised with size being a selling point.
I'd be willing to take less battery life to get something like this, but nearly everything that's anywhere close either has no NFC (which means mobile payments are out the door) or doesn't have 5G or just has such an awful camera/processor as to be basically unusable for many every-day tasks.
I loved it for being so small and light. The last few years it became too slow for regular use (and many apps refused to install) so I put it in airplane mode and used it as an mp3 player.
I'd still be using it today, but I lost it! I was very sad.
I also loved the LG K8 (2017), wonderful device. That one was a touch bigger, but had a really nice curved screen.
I used an iPhone SE (2016) until last year actually, which was even smaller.
It worked fine, until software updates made it useless. That's a recurring theme with my phones!
Very similar story with me. The iPhone SE 1st gen was peak iPhone. Small, had a headphone jack (and could charge while using headphones), nice display, decent battery life. I absolutely loved that phone. I miss having it every day (when I have to use two hands to use this clunker of a phone I have now, when I sit down and feel this gigantic phone in my pocket, etc).
I used my iPhone 4 until the cellular radio wasn't supported anymore. Then I moved into an iPhone SE 1st gen. When the battery bulged I killed it trying to replace the battery (I am not suited to small electronics repair). I gave up, at that point, and moved to a janky Android phone because I couldn't get any phone I wanted from Apple (small and with a headphone jack).
I wish I could have enthusiasm for phones again. Everything isn't what I want.
I certainly won't make the mistake of making a phone integral to my personal workflows and habits again. I certainly won't come to rely on any native apps anymore, either.
I recognize I'm a fraction of a fraction of a percentage of the market. Very few people regard their technology like I do. I feel like the computers (and, at one time, the phones) I use are extensions of myself. I think it's a little like how a musician might regard a beloved instrument, or a craftsman might regard a well-used tool. Very few people get bent out of shape about subtle changes in UI, appearance, latency, or functionality the way I do.
I understand technology today isn't "for me".
It makes me really sad, though.
This phone looks like it might be good replacement but it could also be a bit dodgy. I'm going to wait a bit for reviews before considering buying it https://aiphor.com/products/bluefox-nx1-4-0-android-smartpho...
I believe the big manufacturers don't want to make a small phone (as other users have indicated) because of the big screen's addictiveness. Also, they can't fit a large battery in them so battery life would be a few hours with 1000mp 16k cameras.
I'd rather carry a 1" thick, 4" tall phone than a 0.3" thick 8" tall phone. No pants pockets look normal anymore, and it is even more awkward to walk with tight pants.
You can believe whatever you want, but it doesn’t make it true. We know exactly why they make larger devices and it’s not a secret, it’s what consumers by and large want. It’s not a conspiracy.
Every time a vendor falls for the “we want small phones” thing, they sell poorly thus proving the point again and again that it’s a minority at best that are interested.
Someone pinch me awake when that happens, thanks.
> must have great low light performance
You'll probably have to compromise here a little too. Having "good" smartphone cameras is more about the software than the hardware (there's only so much you can do with small apertures and small sensors), and the flagships have huge R&D investments behind them.
I too want a small phone, and I'd be willing to settle for "passable" camera quality.
Now i'm on SE 2020, but every day i miss original SE form-factor.
I bought an iPhone 15 and a Pixel 7 at the same time when I started a new job 2 years ago. I keep my work stuff on the iPhone. For the first year, I kept them in the same pocket and had them both everywhere with me. The Pixel within a few weeks was starting to look beat up. The iPhone still looks practically brand new.
Just last night, I got home, pulled my Pixel out of my pocket, and found a crack near the corner of the screen. Now the screen is glitching out on the bottom 15% of the screen. I didn't drop it, I didn't bump into anything. Regular pocket pressure while sitting in my car must have bent it and it buckled.
My wife has had similar experiences with Samsung phones.
If it weren't for the lack of good browsers on iOS, I'd put up with the shitty keyboard.
But I don't know why new innovative people are not getting into smartphone making.
Everyone is trying to make the next big software. But why that grit is missing to bring the variety into small hardware devices that target majority?
Or, is it not reaching people like me? Is it the lack of awareness?
I think another reason is sourcing good parts that aren't old and bulky, speaking from the Linux phones I tried
Also drivers somebody has to write em
I used to be annoyed that you had to choose between Android or iOS
I wish android phones had lidar
And the Light Phone 3: https://www.thelightphone.com/lightiii
They can be quite chunky but honestly not too bad
I get the "just works" with decent privacy aspect of the smaller iPhone, health benefits from Apple Watch and for anything requiring longer screen time, termux, shelter cloned apps etc. I use the bigger android (Infact I'm typing this on the excellent HN client Hacki from android).
Earlier I used to use Apple Watch with android using a tool I built[1] which now serves notifications from android to my iPhone.
I'm glad Eric is going ahead with the small phone.
[1] https://github.com/abishekmuthian/apple-watch-with-android
Give them a permanent place in the lineup, treating phones like every other very personal device meant for humans. Small, medium, and large.
If you do that, and give people time to see exactly why 5.42 screens are superior to 6.1"+ sizes, then I think the numbers will start to change from what we saw with the iPhone 12 mini and iPhone 13 mini, which were both launched when people were less on the go than in 100 years.
As a bonus, your phone number wouldn't be bound to that device, but instead would exist everywhere you can install the same softphone app.
And if it did keep running, I'm pretty sure it consumed decently more energy than a dedicated telephony module. And yeah as mentioned, even with a "real" local phone number ported to voipms, I wasn't able to get sms codes from some services.
Moved to a Pixel 2 and then to a Pixel 5. I'm happy with the 5, good size and good features, fast enough for what I want and battery is okay.
Also, you can buy reasonably sized Android phones. They're still big-ish compared to say, 2008, but not huge considering the lack of bezel.
I carry an 8 inch tablet (fits in a jacket pocket) and do most of my mobile web, email, podcast listening etc. on that, using my phone as a hotspot. Can't buy a new 8 inch tablet with a fingerprint reader. Got a couple of 2nd hand ones on eBay and will soon look at putting LineageOS on them (they have out of date versions of Android).
Now I kind of dread what will be available when it's time to finally upgrade this year. Am sure they could make a new mini that didn't seem as compromised, but now they think the size is non-viable.
Bring back when small was not a synonym for cheaper.
Really sad, because the device was physically very practical, and I don't really need such a big screen, just smart UIs like we used to have, that don't cram the screen full of every feature of every PM that ever worked at the company.
I busted out my old 4S, and the fit//finish,, materials, and just how nice it is to hold in your hand and operate are still really nice. Would love to fill it with modern guts.
- either the market is dysfunctional, and the niche of people wanting those devices does not meet the smartphone offer.
- or the market is even smaller than what they think, making it unsustainable.
Both can be solved with time and patience (waiting for this to happen as conditions change) — or by voting with your wallet and making this requirement have priority over others (security, updates, quality, performance, compatibility, etc.).
The market's push towards larger devices is making e-ink 'dumb' phones increasingly appealing for me.
Odd UX that can't be configured (and no idea why). For example, if you touch the power button, it'll unlock and wake up the phone. There's no way to turn that off and require a click. Other android phones can but not minimal. like what the hell was going through their decision making process?
I'm resigned to getting a new iPhone in Sept - reluctantly.
Also I think China makes 3-4" android phones but they're mostly a joke spec wise
Like the OP, I switched from Android (Pixel 3a) to an iPhone SE 3 specifically for the smaller form factor. After using it for over a year, I've found the trade-offs in battery life and camera quality are too significant for my daily use.
These limitations aren't an issue when I'm at home or my desk with easy access to a charger. However, they become acute the moment I'm out for the day. For example, using GPS for navigation or connecting Bluetooth accessories becomes a liability. I can't rely on the phone to last. Also, photos are noticeably more pixelated, and the quality drop-off is clear compared to larger, contemporary phones.
This thread is evidence that the niche for small phones exists. But it's for people willing to accept these compromises by carrying a dedicated camera, a power bank, and using wired peripherals. For me and as the market suggests for most consumers, small phones just doesn't work out as reliable all-in-one devices. I'll probably wait till early next year to pick up one of the new iPhones after they iron out the initial kinks.
My conclusion is the same as the author’s: it’s a matter of you get what you pay for. The demand here is for a small premium phone. This would come with a good set of cameras.
(After all, easiest way to increase battery size is to increase the smallest dimension. Add 1mm to a 4-4.5mm thick battery and you'll increase the battery size by 22-25%. Make the iPhone 13 Mini as thick as its camera bump and you would probably add ≈2.4mm, which would make the battery 60% larger)
- Likely still weigh less than a Pro Max - Have a battery with a capacity larger than the Pro Max - Have the pro cameras stick out about as much as they did on the iPhone 6
And it would feel as robust and solid as an iPhone 4 – my favorite iPhone so far
I'm a small-phone person, and I don't think these _should_ be necessary. I'm fine with wired peripherals (and prefer them), but in 2025, with efficient chips, I don't see why we can't power a device much longer than 24 hours. What if it had decade-old hardware, and -- this is the bit I think is the problem -- the operating system and apps were efficient?
Same with a camera. It seems more about thickness than width; I don't believe it should be impossible to put a large-phone-format camera in a smaller phone. It may take battery space, but see above, we should be ok there these days.
That is only possible if we don't write the software with dozen layers of abstraction and gimmicky features (looking at you, Liquid Glass!).
A weird correlation I’ve observed is that many tech savvy designer folks have iPhone mini’s. I think partly because they do their main work on a computer and don’t lean on their phones as much.
- a 3.5mm jack
- fingerprint sensor on the back
and it's an immediate buy for me, (almost, but not really) regardless of price!
The Pixel 4 had a 5.6" screen and it feels like the local maxima of mobile phone design. Ran GrapheneOS perfectly too.
The small size and clean stock Android were the main reasons I bought this, and it's still a great phone.
By the way, Apple is horribly behind in this area. It is time for them to realize that not everybody wants the same form factor. And people are getting bored by Apple's run-of-the-mill designs.
The slab form factor is excellent industry design; modern efforts to integrate a hardware-keyboard, i. e. in a non-detachable way, are quite frankly daft. It buys the worst of both worlds: added complexity and error-proneness, more (dead) weight, awkward handling, harder maintainability/repairability, etc.
The form factor that was represented by Psion-machines such as the 3- or 5-series was great at the time, but is now obsolete, as evidenced by Planet Computers' recreations. Integrated sliders (e. g. F(x)tec) are only marginally better.
Technically, the solution of course is very elegant and simple:
1. Slab-form factor UMPC/smartphone 2. Corresponding detachable (as "attachable folder"), roughly Psion 5-sized keyboard a similar 3. Small "click-in" keyboard dock à la Pinephone keyboard or a 4. Detachable slider
But that is indeed just one variable in the whole equation; there's a whole set of features I consider essential for a smartphone- or UMPC-like device that one doesn't find anymore.
There are so many Android phone models, but not a single one that's a reasonable size?
I like the idea of the folding flip style phones (Galaxy Flip) though and hope Apple makes one of those!
That is another idea which apple didn't like.
I have multiple screen with me, so my 13 mini is great.
Pixel 9 (2024) = 6.3 inches.
I know the Pixel 9 is not that small, but is close and an excellent phone (base or Pro models, the XL is bigger).
A full flagship phone at 6.1" size