Comment by libertine | Hacker News Reader

Comment by libertine | Hacker News Reader

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Not really, the point being made goes deeper.

The Russian regime (and apparently a lot of Russians) deem Ukrainians as an inferior ethnic group - they call them "little Russians".

Ukrainian authorship would mean:

- Ukrainians are competent people with agency (which they are of course, for lots of reasons) - this plays into ethnophobia;

- their government, military, etc, is competent, functional with agency - this plays into government legitimacy;

- Overall, in a lot of instances, the Russian government is incompetent, even more incompetent than the guys their propaganda has been trying to paint as corrupt, incompetent people who are being manipulated.

That's why a lot of time Russian propaganda trys to spin Ukrainian wins as "NATO/CIA/MI6/external agent did this".

For example, they tried really hard to bend reality to remove the credit for the Ukrainian drone operation that destroyed a lot of bomber jets, saying it was planned and executed by CIA, MI6, Israel, etc [0].

This is what we're dealing with here: massive ethnophobia and propaganda.

So in their propaganda, Ukraine can't be competent and stand on its merit, because that would mean they're not inferior people and that they have agency.

You should always be wary of someone making these claims without any evidence.

[0]https://uacrisis.org/en/rospropaganda-zaplutalas-v-pavutyni

That’s not the meaning behind “Little Russia”, please considering doing a historical deep dive.

You don't need much of a historical deep dive to see how it's currently being used:

> The term Little Russia is now anachronistic when used to refer to the country Ukraine and the modern Ukrainian nation, its language, culture, etc. Such usage is typically perceived as conveying an imperialist view that the Ukrainian territory and people ("Little Russians") belong to "one, indivisible Russia".Today, many Ukrainians consider the term disparaging, indicative of Russian suppression of Ukrainian identity and language. It has continued to be used in Russian nationalist discourse, in which modern Ukrainians are presented as a single people in a united Russian nation. This has provoked new hostility toward and disapproval of the term by many Ukrainians. In July 2021 Vladimir Putin published a 7000-word essay, a large part of which was devoted to expounding these views. [0]

Ethnical slurs, or any other slurs, change over time. If you go back in time 100+ years in any context, and you use a modern ethnic or racial slur, it will most likely empty of meaning. Just like a lot of slurs from the past have lost their meaning over the years. But the "historical meaning" is constantly being used by Russian propaganda, where they claim one needs to go back to the 1200's, and their interpretation of history, to try to make sense of the current genocide attempt in Ukraine.

There's no logic behind that approach because current actions speak for themselves, including the context of recent history, and that's enough. You can get a pretty clear picture of this whole event starting in the 1990s.

Unless you still see that slur being used by Russian nationalists as an endearing term to address their "brotherly nation" which they support being erased from the map.

[0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Russia#Modern_usage

Please stop spreading this BS. Малороссия ("little" Russia as you say) does not mean what you say.

What does it mean in the current Russian political environment?

> The term Little Russia is now anachronistic when used to refer to the country Ukraine and the modern Ukrainian nation, its language, culture, etc. Such usage is typically perceived as conveying an imperialist view that the Ukrainian territory and people ("Little Russians") belong to "one, indivisible Russia".Today, many Ukrainians consider the term disparaging, indicative of Russian suppression of Ukrainian identity and language. It has continued to be used in Russian nationalist discourse, in which modern Ukrainians are presented as a single people in a united Russian nation. This has provoked new hostility toward and disapproval of the term by many Ukrainians. In July 2021 Vladimir Putin published a 7000-word essay, a large part of which was devoted to expounding these views. [0]

Just to make sure, according to you, this is completely false and detached?

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Russia#Modern_usage

But this is a small detail from my reply, why are people so focused on this? Even if I was wrong, which I don't see that I am, everything else still stands.

So "The Russian regime (and apparently a lot of Russians) deem Ukrainians as an inferior ethnic group - they call them "little Russians"." it is? And this follows from the link? Have you read it? Really?

The term Малороссия now days is outdated indeed, as wiki says. This term was first introduced not even by Russia but by Byzantine Church and word "мало" ("little" as you "translate" here) means "original" "primordial" to distinct two church branches and then where used to denote parts of Rus' under Polish rule.

Note, the linked article does not say that Russians use this term to denote someone inferior. It says that some Ukrainians consider this word offensive which is not surprising taking into account active propaganda and lack of historical education in masses.

You still failed to address the question: "little russians", "kholkhols" are ethnic slurs being used by Russian nationalists as terms of endearment?

> It says that some Ukrainians consider this word offensive which is not surprising taking into account active propaganda and lack of historical education in masses.

So not because Russians are in their land trying to kill as many Ukrainians as possible, terrorizing them, and destroying their culture? It's all because of propaganda?

I addressed you phrase about Russians seen Ukrainians as an inferior ethnic group and "proving" this by "they call them "little Russians", please don't shift topics. This is BS. There is no such phrase "little Russians" in Russian language.

Ethnic slurs exists of course. In any language. And "kholkhols" is one of them. As well as word "moskal'" in Ukranian. Do you know what it means? And ethnic slurs are not used in official language, you know. I mean Russian official language.

>So not because Russians are in their land trying to kill as many Ukrainians as >possible, terrorizing them, and destroying their culture? It's all because of >propaganda? Yes, just because of propaganda targeted at low educated people. I mean you can hate Russia for starting the war and turn a blind eye to Ukrainians killing Donbass people but hating historical word referring to some lands that now are part of Ukraine? Just because it has "мало" in it? You need combination of propaganda and low intelligence here.

P.S. Not going to continue. This all conversation is just waist of my time.

I didn't say "Russians" I said the Regime and a lot of Russians (extreme nationalist ones), which are the ones running the propaganda machine.

It has been used has a derogatory term, like other ethnic slurs.

> And ethnic slurs are not used in official language, you know. I mean Russian official language.

If they are part of the Russian State propaganda language, then they're part of the official language. You, in particular, might not like it and feel uncomfortable with it, but that doesn't mean it's not happening. So you're misguided in your assessment, the problem isn't the new derogatory meaning of the word "little russian", it's the people using it while supporting the genocide in Ukraine.

> As well as word "moskal'" in Ukranian. Do you know what it means?

Oh I'm sure there are plenty of slurs from Ukrainians towards the people invading their land, killing and raping, destroying their livelyhood and culture in an attempt to erase them from the map! How do you expect people to react towards the people committing war crimes, crimes against humanity, and genocide?

> I mean you can hate Russia for starting the war and turn a blind eye to Ukrainians killing Donbass people

So your take is still the propaganda hook? Russia has killed more Ukrainians in the Donbass than anyone else since 2014 - they're the only ones to blame. They can try to spin it, but all the evidence points in their direction.

As for "hating an historical word" I don't even know what that means. Words in itself are not subject of being hated, its the people who use them with bad intentions that are the problem here.

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