The amount and extent of data that is available out there by brokers for purchase by literally any company is *mind-boggling*. However bad you think it is, multiply that by 10.
To add to this, any mention of "telemetry" is taken to mean your PII being taken by bad actors to abuse, instead of what it is in 99% of cases, which is usage statistics. (X% of our users use feature A, it merits investment). It can be both, but there's usually no place for differentiation, just pitchforks.
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me 153,927,861 times, shame on me.
The place for differentiation, the place for "oh this is probably fine", the benefit of the doubt is, of course, lost.
Because someone (you? people shaped like you?) who misuse telemetry destroyed trust.
> It can be both
should instead be "it usually is both and you the user have no way to know anyway."
Answering to court orders isn't "ratting". You either answer court orders or go to prison.
https://discuss.privacyguides.net/t/privacy-pass-the-new-pro...
Apparently not Privacy Pass related, will keep looking as I seem to remember that Mullvad was doing that implementation, but I may remember incorrectly.
https://discuss.privacyguides.net/t/mullvad-has-partnered-wi...
If the headline is "Mark Zuckerberg is amassing your data and you know it's for evil", it's an easy sell. If it's "there's an ecosystem of little-known companies that sell transaction, location and lifestyle data to marketers, journalists, PIs, and police departments alike", it's not exactly the kind of a message that spurs people to action. And yeah, the newspaper that would be breaking the news is a customer too.
Some of this is that people are rather wrong about just how much smarter some of the big consumer tech companies are.
Let's say we want this dataset: Credit card line items for 35-year-old dentists living on the 400 block of Elm street in local town
How much do I have to pay you to get it?
Never ask a sales person how much yo have to pay when the prices are not already clearly stated. Tell them how much you are willing to spend to see if they will do it for that amount. Sales people will always shoot high hoping to not leave money on the table. The price might change depending on how much you squeal and how high they shot. Your initial "willing to spend" should also be lower than you're actually willing to spend for the same but converse reason
Seems like the first thing to do would be to get an account with one of these data brokers. I'd imagine most of these places are "contact us for pricing" so they can play used car salesman games
Or, you could ask John Oliver to do it for you and then tell all of us on one of his episodes exactly how in depth it could get. They have the money to do this, and it seems like something right in his team's wheel house
Just because someone doesn't answer your belligerent questions does not mean it's not possible. It probably means that the people that are doing this with first hand knowledge have too much to do than trying to convert doubting Thomas over here.
https://datarade.ai/data-categories/food-grocery-transaction...
Have we really lost the ability to use search functionality??
Yea, you know everything, don't you.
Let me google this for you...
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=how+to+buy+data+from+a+data+broker...
I'll waste my own time and give a trivial example just off the top of my head. Go peruse some of the products offered on this page, put on your thinking cap or even look into them further and imagine what kind of data those services provide, where it likely comes from, and where it is sold to, and you'll be well on your way - and those are just the ones that are advertised openly.
https://www.transunion.com/business
Pretty much every one of the big players people typically associate with other areas such as personal credit have some feet in this space somewhere. Then theres the hundreds of lesser-known fly-by-night guys that have their own DB's they build off of mostly what is the same data, but correlated in different ways and sold to different audiences.
There are many, many services offering data-for-sale on practically anything to practically anyone. I heard of one recently claiming it can reliably determine someone's porn preferences. The fact you personally have never come across it, or are saying you aren't, is only a data point that is interesting to you, and no one else that actually knows what they are talking about in this space. Hope this post helps you somehow.
Okay but then why not name at least a couple such services. Also, if the tech industry isn't selling data to them, where do they obtain it? Again, I see lots of ambiguity here, and the example link from transunion is hardly revealing of anything.
Mobile service providers are known to have sold data. https://www.fcc.gov/document/fcc-fines-largest-wireless-carr...
Auto makers are known to sell data. https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a61711288/automakers-sold-...
You act like it doesn't happen, yet time and time again we learn about companies selling whatever data they can collect.
I can't believe we are still questioning this fact
What else do you need to know?
Anyhow, thanks for taking the time to include some links.
>So if you want to think that people are collecting the data and not selling it to interested parties, the, boy, I don’t know.
As I very clearly said above, I don't doubt it at all, I was just asking for any clarification on who to whom.
It fills its data lakes with the vectorization and down tilt data that it collects every day. It uses federated batched Hadoop tasks to join the above data lakes into one large data lake. Mid-PB in size.
Then it looks for mobile phones that travel to the 400 block at night and stay there, that are buying dentist stuff from Walmart, travel to a dentist office every workday, have an income over $120k, and are a member of the local dentist society. Maybe look for someone with dentist student loans, graduated with a dental degree.
None of those data points can identify an individual. Taken together they can ID just about anybody.
But maybe there is a chance that you ID their wife/husband. So maybe include/exclude people that regularly visit OBGYN offices.
Back in the day we could link cell numbers to credit card purchases in locations to the point of being to identify the name of the person and what they purchased and where it was purchased. For all people in a metro area that were using credit cards and physically visiting stores.
I think most people here understand that Google sells ads against that data, but they aren't selling the data.
I do not believe that. I would like evidence before I am convinced
If my bank is releasing that data I am horrified. I live in anew Zealand and our privacy laws are clear: it would be illegal
We have strict privacy laws
That would put us ahead?
If I collect your private information for a purpose, I may only use it for that purpose. I may not sell it
So if I have your transaction details I may use them to complete the transaction, no other purpose
The general public have no idea how much ad providers and data brokers know about them.
Relevant article: http://archive.today/fzUL4
It’s harder to do this now, but think a bit - set the net wider and catch a few more, who cares! All you care is your target gets hit.
https://therecord.media/ftc-complaint-against-kochava-unseal...
Among the additional information Kochava collects and sells are non-anonymized individual home addresses, phone numbers, email addresses, gender, age, ethnicity, yearly income, “economic stability,” marital status, education level, political affiliation and “interests and behaviors,” compiling and selling dossiers on individuals marketed as offering a “360-degree perspective,” the FTC said.
...
According to the FTC, Kochava’s data can identify women who visit reproductive clinics by name and address along with, for example, when they visit particular buildings, their names, email and home addresses, number of children, race and app usage.
...
Kochava marketing materials tell customers it offers “rich geo data spanning billions of devices globally” and that its location data feed “delivers raw latitude/longitude data with volumes around 94B+ geo-transactions per month, 125 million monthly active users, and 35 million daily active users, on average observing more than 90 daily transactions per device.”
...
The complaint also alleges that the company has lax procedures for determining who it is selling data to, saying purchasers are allowed to use a generic personal email address, label an alleged company as “self” and explain they plan to use the data for “business.”
And then there's this: https://therecord.media/data-brokers-are-selling-military-se...
It’s amazing how much worse things have gotten, yet how people seem to care less now than they used to.
I wonder if it’s just consumers being so overwhelmed by their lack of control that they’ve become apathetic to the problem as a whole.
The cc/bank provider already gets an itemized bill, and they get it for everywhere you shop as opposed to a single store (so a superset of this data is already collected). This is in some (most?) cases already shared with stores, and even if it isn't, what can a store do with it the bank/cc provider can't do worse.
Thats where the paranoid was, around the fact that your individual shopping habits were being stored.
Also we are talking about the 90s here. So cash payments were more common.
Do banks sell this information? This bill was pulled from this ATM in Georgia by one Claudius McMoneyhands, and then deposited by one CashMoneyBusiness LLC in South Carolina three weeks later
Seems like there could still be intermediaries and a lack of what you actually bought with it at least?
denominations, perhaps?
If the FTC could do anything here to make this situation better, it would be to give every person access to any data about them that gets sold.
In Manufacturing Consent they measured column inches in the NYT-- IIRC it was something like measuring the total that support the relevant U.S. administration's official position on given policy vs. inches that went against the gov't position. In any case, they were measuring column inches.
What were you measuring to come to your conclusion?
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/22/magazine/hank-asher-data....
I'm aware that using adblockers and avoiding social media doesn't entirely prevent tracking, shadow profiles, and such, but surely it makes things more difficult for these companies, no? Or would you say that there's practically no difference between making an effort to preserve one's privacy and just giving up entirely?
Does any of what you’re talking about impact my life? How?
I know someone who bought the address of everyone with a specific first name.
Where I live it is.
If you were caught demoing something both horrific and internal you would risk serious damage to your career, and ultimately will have zero impact on the industry as there's just too much data out there and too much money wrapped up in it.
Plus, most people working with the data don't bother to look at it. The places I've internally demo'd massive privacy risks were shocked because they didn't realize what their own data was capable of. Most people are just writing jobs that run and shuffle data around from one place to another never really asking "what is this data?" Even among data scientists I'm routinely surprised (so maybe I shouldn't be surprised) how frequently data scientist never do any real error analysis by looking at what the model got wrong and trying to understand why.
I’m guessing with the help of Palantir, the government has even more data and can probably link Reddit posts etc based on styleometry and can even perform psychological analysis on your personality and tendencies, etc.
After being burnt by things taken from my social media out of context, used to publicly shame me, I locked down my social media
Am I "sweetly naive" to think that had an effect? I do think it did
Before I stopped using Facebook I noticed, over the last decade, that almost every account I encountered was locked down similarly
My point is I suspect it is getting harder, not easier, for data thieves. The golden age of data theft has passed. Maybe.
FB creates a shadow profile for you even if you no longer have an account. Databrokers respect legal requirements to delete your data then just populate a new profile for you.
I'd argue it's easier now than ever to get hands on someone's data in the USA.
I really need to start using PocketPal (local LLM on Android) to restate my messages.
---
Oh, the places I'd like to send my texts so fine, With PocketPal, a tool that's truly divine, Local LLM on Android, a wondrous device to see, To help me restate my messages with glee! Wheee!
In many cases joining datasets is both labor intensive and creates a surprising amount of new information, and there is also plenty of "free" data that is incredibly tedious to work with.
I used to work with real estate data for the government and if you search for any common things you might want to know you often land on a data brokers page even though property assessor data is freely available in most counties. The problem is each county has their own system of storing data and their own process for searching it. It's a lot of work to learn how just this one dataset works, combining this for all counties in the US is a massive project.
Whenever I buy a new home I always look up all my neighbors, figure out when they bought the house, how much they paid etc. Some people get freaked out by this, but this information is public in most counties.
By joining this data with another public data set, you can actually figure out which lender your neighbors used and what their reported income at time of sale, their age and ethnic background.
Of course there are plenty of other ways data brokers come across data, but even cleaning up and joining public data can require a fair bit of time and expertise.
I am a perfect example of this. Due to a bit of a quirk in how my house got its address assigned to it in 1959, we have a unique postal code. If a data broker gets access to a list of product purchases by postal code from a retailer, that's in theory somewhat anonymized. However... if they also get a list of people-postal code mappings, they have now established exactly what products my wife and I have purchased (by virtue of us being the only two people with this postal code).
Do that across multiple retailers and they've painted an incredibly vivid picture of what exactly we do with our time.
It should not be surprising that they are selling your data for a profit...