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Comment by pmg101 | Hacker News Reader

It was interesting today to discover the concept of "type 2 fun".

I often wondered why people did these self-evidently unfun things, purportedly "for fun".

I think part of it is that I just don't think of pain as per se bad. A lot of people I know who struggle with exercise feel a little discomfort and act like its the end of the world. They get shin splits or something and they decide they can't run. I've had mild shin splits continuously for 15 years. It doesn't really bother me in the same way, I guess. When I get back from a run if I lightly bump my shins its excruciating.

I will say that now that I am getting older its getting a bit tougher - the pain is worse and lasts longer and real chronic pain kind of bums me out, but I just enjoy the challenge of trying to work around my body.

Some people get literally high when running. Some don’t. The get high types invariably posture as if they have more dedication or willpower. Funny stuff.

You're right, there is no such thing as willpower and we're all automatons moving through the universe like planets in orbit, helpless to affect our future or how we feel about ourselves or the world.

I think you are ironically correct about that! We (including our neurons) operate at the deterministic level of physics. Measuring subconscious areas of the brain also demonstrates that "choices" we make aren't as made-by-our-consciousness as we think. Robert Sapolsky's books (especially "Behave" and "Determined" are phenomenal reads if this topic interests you.

Now that said I don't think living your life as though you have no free will is a good life strategy. The illusion of free will is incredibly important. Fortunately we humans are masters at living with cognitive dissonance and inconsistent beliefs

I know all that stuff, I was just caricaturing the person's response because I felt it was a bit glib.

I definitely do not believe we have free will in the most traditional sense, but I am a sort of compatibilist: its clear we cannot make a different choice in identical circumstances for meaningful reasons, but identical circumstances never occur anyway. A person's psychology is a sort of accumulation of all their experiences into biases for future behavior and our "will" is really just a manifestation of those experiences. But to whatever extent we can curate those experiences to produce a long term psychology that we like, I think we should do it.

Ah, got it! Yes, I totally agree.

It still takes a lot of discipline to make yourself get out there, especially on days when you don't feel well. The "high" only comes after the exercise is well underway. You can definitely condition yourself to look forward to the high as motivation, but it's not a given and it will never be as appealing as booze, weed, or any other drug.

I think comfort/discomfort is a highly individualized thing where your range gets calibrated by your experience, and that modern western lifestyles have created a very narrow band of what’s comfortable for many people.

I’m a big Type II fun person and feel that there are all sorts of highly satisfying life experiences to be had if you’re able to tolerate some discomfort, but there has to be some deliberate practice of getting comfortable being uncomfortable to ease into it.

> I will say that now that I am getting older its getting a bit tougher - the pain is worse and lasts longer and real chronic pain kind of bums me out, but I just enjoy the challenge of trying to work around my body.

Please see this as your body trying to tell you something before you end up with a bad injury that could prevent you from running for weeks.

For me, shin splits subsided after I got more comfortable running shoes and shortening the distance covered during runs (i.e. ~5km down to ~3km, 5-days a week).

They might be unpleasant but still fun. And they may be painful but in reward you get to see places you would otherwise not. Or you may get to discover your limits, which are of course further out than just pain and discomfort. So there is absolutely enjoyment in these "unfun" things.

Plus of course the chance to humble brag online afterwards!

Just because you feel like shit and your head is saying "this sucks ass", there's also the endorphins being released, the feeling of achieving something, of overcoming your own limitations and stuff.

I mean it's not for me but I can see how in hindsight (it's always in hindsight, never in the moment) it'll be considered fun. Or at the very least a story to share with friends or the internet, which is also fun.

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