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Comment by EliRivers | Hacker News Reader

Are there plumbing pages where people teach their children to plumb, or dry-walling speciality sites where folks discuss how to get their kids into plasterwork? Is this just a few cases, or is there something about programming that makes people think it should be done by everyone? I recall not so long ago a thread about how programming should be taught at school alongside English (read "mastery of relevant language" for non-English speaking nations) and Maths.

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Are there plumbing pages where people teach their children to plumb, or dry-walling speciality sites where folks discuss how to get their kids into plasterwork?

That sort of thing is quite popular with Boy Scouts and the like. You can get a special magazine for fun father&son activities like The Joy of Spackle. Totally not joking.

I gave my niece a toy, which she reportedly loved, in which you build little hydraulic systems out of toy pipes.

http://www.fatbraintoys.com/search.cfm?q=%20bridge%20street%...

Meanwhile, there's little need for toy drywall compound. We have Play-Doh, better in many ways, or for the older and wiser there is papier-mâché or real modeling clay or, well, drywall compound. It's not that dangerous except to your furniture and carpets.

Have we talked to any actual five-year-olds while constructing this metaphor? The ones who are obsessed with Bob the Builder and Thomas the Tank Engine and Wallace and Gromit (tinkerers, ya know) and who own little toy plastic toolboxes and squeal at the sight of construction equipment? Is it only my friends' kids who are like this?

> is there something about programming that makes people think it should be done by everyone?

Yes.

Is it possible for you to expand on this? To give just one example, plumbing is far more fundamental to civilisation and we're happy to have a trained cadre of plumbers, and for most people to go their whole lives with no knowledge of it. Do plumbers wander round shaking their heads and wondering why nobody else knows how to do it?

I'd say for a number of reasons they're different. Plumbing, while probably useful at some point in your life, is just one activity. Programming is NOT just one thing. It's closer to woodshop (which I hope is still in schools...). Another difference I think is that you can create something bigger with it, something that scales. Last but not least, I think it's inherently fun and fulfilling to create something out of nothing, but I'll admit that it's not for everyone. But neither is woodshop or gym class. I'd also say that teaching some programming along side math could have some benefits to learning and motivation.

I would say programming is analogous to the entire idea of working with your hands (which subsumes woodshop, metal shops, car repair, etc.).

Woodshop is mostly gone. And it's kind of a shame. But we have Chinese factories to make all our wood stuff now.

Programming is a much more general skill than plumbing. Don't just think Java enterprise apps for a Fortune 500... programming is fundamentally about learning how to use computers to their fullest. The ability to explore and create with computers is a powerful skill that complements most of the potential careers that a child may pursue in the future. Pretty much any science or engineering field will benefit from programming experience. Increasingly other fields are starting to move in directions that will make those skills more valuable.

Computers are just at the very beginning of revolutionizing the way that human society interacts. Why would you not want your children to have an edge?

Programming is a fundamental concept like arithmetic or persuasive argument. It is about turning abstract human thought into machine-executable algorithms. Children who learn to program will grow up smarter and more productive than those who don't, even if they never code for their job.

In addition, the number of jobs that requiring programing skills is exploding and will continue to grow. The basic idea of automating information tasks is useful for many, many tasks.

programming hones logic and abstract thought. these skills underly almost any endeavor that humans tackle.

We already have a subject taught for that. Maths. As an aside, to the extent that when we're hiring fresh grad programmers, their maths ability is a better indication of future quality than their programming ability. We find it easier to teach people who can think how to program than the other way around.

It's different than the classical/non-algorithmic sort of math taught in schools, it's more like "maths in motion" which can be very exciting and give early rewards in the feedback loop of learning, when kids see their creations actually do something. It also requires a different sort of thinking than the study of classical/non-algorithmic math, IMO. It's a very exciting time to be involved in the borderland between mathematics and computer science, with languages like Agda giving a whole new take on constructive mathematics.

You may be missing a large cohort who found school math boring, but have an aptitude.

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