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Comment by em-bee | Hacker News Reader

the education i received in germany did have this goal. the teachers had this goal, and i have the impression that the teachers and schools my kids go to have this goal as well. i can't say how universal that is, but it the opposite is not universal either.

the problem is that the goals are not effectively implemented. maybe it's more a dream than a goal, because the teachers and schools don't know how to actually reach that goal.

meaningful participation in society is often reduced to the ability to get a job by those outside of school, so you are right about employers. at least the large ones. unfortunately that works against them, because the current generation of juniors doesn't even want to learn anything. they are drones that just want to get paid, but are not motivated to learn what they need to do their job better.

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Just yesterday, I talked to a neighbor who has two kids attending a local school in Mitte. He told me that the children are constantly indoctrinated into group conformity, obedience to authority, and fear of "wrong-think," with a good splash of wokie-talkie on top of it. To me, that sounds like a complete erasure of agency. Schools must provide knowledge, not override the nurture given by parents.

I have personally observed how locals are bullied by overseas guests and choose a delusional escape into virtue signaling rather than defending themselves. I consider German upbringing to be that of a defeated people.

I consider German upbringing to be that of a defeated people

i don't know what you are trying to imply here. how should the feeling of defeat affect the upbringing? (i mean,i am sure there would be an effect, but how would that look like?)

what i can tell you is that the sentiment i experienced was not defeat. after all this is neither our, nor our parents, (and for the current generation also not their grandparents) experience. the feeling we were taught was that of embarrassment, of how could we let that happen and consequently the need to understand how we can avoid that from ever happening again. except for a minority or right wing sympathizers that we keep a close eye on.

I think that the Allied victors laid the foundation of the current German education system on initial denazification and subsequent extreme pacification, to such a degree of impotence that people refuse to defend themselves even when they are fully capable of neutralizing a criminal, preferring to become victims rather than use force.

i don't have this feeling at all. on what experience do you base that on?

I’ve seen multiple instances of robberies where the attacker was a head shorter and could have been easily stunned, or worse, with a single hit, yet people gave away their valuables because even the thought of using violence is taboo. Of course, the police always say, “Just file a complaint,” which never results in anything. It’s not a joke: even if violence is used purely to stop a criminal, the police will prosecute you, lol. I’m not American, but I like the idea that one could defend themselves and their property using all means necessary.

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