Hacker News Reader

The most issues I encounter with music players are related to my situation of NAS. My NAS is straightforward: I just connect a RAID to a Mac and share it, then let other Macs connect to this "server". This allows me to access it in Finder like any other directory. However, this setup presents two obvious problems for many players: First, since the directory is not always available (if I'm not at home), some players cannot properly handle the issue of the main directory not existing. Second, I need to easily synchronise playlists across different computers, but many players do not support saving playlists as files, specifying their save location onto NAS, and configuring themselves to read playlists from NAS. These issues have been causing me a great deal of frustration. Currently I use VOX, which is a fairly acceptable option. I hope I can find a better solution.

I find Synology's DS Audio pretty decent because it has mobile apps and local playback through a web interface, although very little confidence in them as a company.

My setup uses Jellyfin, Finer and Tailscale. I can access all my music even out of home and playlists/metadata are synced across all devices.

If you are looking for a “old school iTunes” kind of player there’s also https://swinsian.com/

The Readme mentions that app under "Motivation"

> Motivation

> I have a large collection of music files that I’ve gathered over the years, and I missed having a good offline music player on macOS. I used Swinsian (great app, by the way!), but it hasn't been updated in years. I also missed features commonly found in streaming apps; so I built Petrichor to scratch that itch and learn Swift and macOS app development along the way!

For the people interested, Swinsian has a beta version that is actively developed. I got an update a couple of weeks ago. So it is not abandoned.

Oh, is there a way to switch to the beta channel? I love and use Swinsian, I know they're actively working on the next major version, but can't get interim ones.

Gemini says: pressing Option on the Swinsian menu changes the "Check For Updates..." menu option to "Check For Updates (Beta)..."

I don't have specific complaints about the current version, but I'm going to give it a try. If nothing else, it's probably ARM native.

Petrichor shows my albums as a single track. CUE sheet support is a must.

I also have a hard time seeing myself using a desktop music player without an iTunes-style column-mode browser.

quodlibet comes highly recommended for Windows/Linux users that want a more retro media player: https://github.com/quodlibet/quodlibet

Thanks for the recommendation! This one's the best "old school iTunes" program I've tried so far. I might stick with this one for now. I especially like how I can make smartlists with nested rules.

The main thing I'm missing is volume leveling.

A friend of mine (sound engineer) has been using VLC player for audio playback since forever. I do the same.

The advantage is that you are forced to organize your music in your file system and that translates incredibly well to all other future systems. Want a special playlist? Just copy the files over and name them with a numeric prefix counting up. You can open that playlist ten years later on a different operating system.

Since I tend to listen to full albums, this has been a good way of doing things.

There’s a reason library based players were invented and that’s that you don’t need to batch rename files, or tag a file 3 times if it’s part of 3 different playlists.

I didn't claim there was no reason.

Swinsian is 100% worth the $24.95. It's really nice to have a good system for offline music purchases.

You could give my app a shot too:

https://www.plastaq.com/minimoon

I always appreciate more iTunes / Music.app competitors but personally I don't like the look of Minimoon. It looks more like a Windows app and not really like a native macOS app, especially with the sidebar.

I just want to point out that the .app is only 14MB. This is the way. Nice work, OP

I've been searching for the perfect "old school iTunes" program for a while. I'm pretty sure it does not exist, maybe I'll try to make one someday unless someone beats me to it? Here's what I want:

* Smartlists, preferably with nested rules

* Proper search, the way iTunes did it: you have a huge excel-like list of songs that filters as you type

* Volume leveling

* Corresponding Windows/Mac/iPhone programs, with the ability to sync my collection like Dropbox

I would gladly pay $100 for this.

Smart playlists will be coming soon as I've done all the infra work to support it, in fact current default playlists that app has (Favourites, Top 25 Most Played, Top 25 Recently Played) use smart playlists behind the scenes, just that I don't have a UI to edit the rules yet.

Search should already be very fast (and filter through matches across any metadata field) as the app uses FTS5 on SQLite db to search tracks. But let me know if you still notice performance issues or bugs around it.

There might be iOS app in future but no plans for Windows app as that's a separate project of its own.

For cloud storage syncing, I did consider it at one point but then scope of this app would be very large, and there are plenty good apps to sync cloud storage data, like I personally use https://maestral.app/ for syncing Dropbox.

This sounds like a breath of fresh air as a disenchanted Spotify user. My only hesitation is that I’ve lost touch with collecting music. I used to rip CDs and download music and curate a library etc, but I’ve lost my collection and collecting habits since adopting streaming. How do people collect music nowadays? Is there a legit way (fairly compensating artists) to do it?

Bandcamp comes to mind. Not sure about artists who aren't on Bandcamp, though.

I buy from Bandcamp and Qobuz (especially for classical and artists that are not on Bandcamp).

Congrats for Petrichor, really impressive work! I love the clean, modern UI. I’m currently using Swinsian (still solid in many ways), but Petrichor feels like a breath of fresh air, especially for those of us who still care about local libraries. I truly hope you’ll bring this to iOS. Thanks

Two suggestions, if you have the time to look at the effort and difficulty to implement them:

> P.S. I plan publish it on Homebrew soon.

1. Please consider publishing on MacPorts too.

2. Please consider supporting m4b audiobooks (it’s a different file extension from the common m4a, but also supports chapters).

Yes, the app got enough traction already to warrant for Homebrew and MacPorts distribution, so I'll try to incorporate both!

Audiobooks support looks like a neat idea, I'll see if I can accommodate it in future, for now, I'm keeping it limited to music files only.

I don't own a Mac, so I wont use it directly, but I use Macs from time to time, and it looks great! +1 (or +10) for being native code made with Swift and not the x-th HTML/JS-based program that eats your RAM :-)

If you’re looking for a “iTunes before it went to shit” vibe I can also recommend Doppler: https://brushedtype.co/doppler/

Thanks for the recommendation! I gave it a try, but unfortunately this one doesn't have the stuff that I liked from old-school iTunes. At first glance: no smart lists; search doesn't work the way I want (I want a giant excel-like list that filters as I type); no volume leveling.

You could also try my app:

https://www.plastaq.com/minimoon

I can suggest Cog (https://cog.losno.co/) as simple but powerfull music player that plays flac

Without even looking at anything else, I love the name.

Anyone want to let me in on the joke/reference/pun/pronunciation/why it's a clever name?

There you go https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petrichor

> Petrichor is the earthy scent produced when rain falls on dry soil.

It's actually my favorite scent in the world. I grew up in New Mexico.

Also the name of a song by Ludovico Einaudi, quite popular. At least to me it was the first thing I thought when I saw this post.

I’ve been searching for something like this, I love the name!

I currently use iTunes, and I might be an idiot, but I don’t seem to be able to export/import my library between installs, so I lose my plays and settings, but I never lose music files!

I have a massive music library and mostly just listen on shuffle, but it would be cool to be able to sync to my iPhone.

I’ll try all the recommendations in this thread!

Does it have FLAC support (or other high res audio formats)?

OP should put it up front in their README.

But from the code, seems it does.

  static let supportedExtensions = ["mp3", "m4a", "wav", "aac", "aiff", "flac"]

Thanks for the feedback, I'll add it to Readme, although app lists supported formats (as supported by AVFoundation) on app UI where user can add folders.

Nice work! Will try.

Also just dropping a Winamp-like app I use on the Mac, it has quick access to AU Audio Units, which I like:

https://github.com/kartik-venugopal/aural-player

UPDATE: Oh, the developer discontinued it.

Any thoughts on syncing against an external music library that uses the Subsonic API (like Navidrome or similar) so an offline/"away from home" laptop could still listen to music?

Looks fantastic, I used to love using iTunes for my music library until they screwed up queuing albums. Will there be mobile apps too?

No plans for iOS app in near future but once this one reaches a feature stability, I'll think about it, as the decision to use Swift & Swift UI was for sharing logic with iOS app in future.

BTW the feature I most-loved from iTunes was when they added the colour analysis to albums, it made each album feel more unique.

http://ssrubin.com/img/musiclibrary/iTunes.png

https://www.tech-recipes.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/itun...

https://cpng.pikpng.com/pngl/s/556-5568070_flower-boy-itunes...

Yes so much. I miss those years, it had personality, it was so cool and at the same time so functional.

Alas Apple is now chasing money at all costs they couldn't make good software if their life depended on it.

I've been looking for an alternative since Apple decided to turn iTunes into the mess that is Apple Music. But I still need to import the two decades of playing statistics (skips, last played, etc) along with ratings, date added, etc. Petrichor looks really good, congratulations, I'll try it out.

I'm in the same situation, but if we take a rational look at it those statistics don't really have any value. If you can make different playlists in your new player according to your old ratings, then that should be enough.

On the contrary, I find them priceless.

Ditto.

I would also add that what has stopped me from ever using an iTunes or Music alternative is the inability to directly transfer the "Date Added" data, along with the statistics you mentioned. I cannot express the value to me in being able to chronologically look at how (and in what direction) my music collection has grown.

Exactly. And the ability to create smart playlist that explore them, for example, songs I haven't heard in more than 2 years that I've never skipped. Things like that.

I mean, it's very nice and that's also what's keeping me on iTunes. But the value of it is 6-7 dollars at most.

I'm not in front of my laptop but I'm gonna download it later, as I've got a 128GB SD card filled with my middle aged white guy hipster music library that I also keep on an actual 5G iPod Classic (which I added SD storage to and keep meaning to also add a Bluetooth module to as well).

A thought, because of all the folks asking for volume limiting: if you're not into DSP, it might be easier to simply add a point in your audio output flow for AudioUnits and let people use one of the existing limiters for it - Apple just straight up includes one on every Mac in the AudioUnits library - or write one specifically and include it.

This would also allow not just limiting but EQ, compression or even simulated tube warmth if people wanted that. (Or, y'know, running everything through autotune and a bit crusher if they're psychopaths. :-D)

I've never coded in Swift but I imagine adding a point to route through AudioUnits is probably not hugely difficult and iirc Apple has example code for doing it, at least they used to.

Keep up the awesome work, either way!

Be careful when you implement automatic updates. Done naievely it will grant you RCE on every one of your users’ computers. Learn from Solarwinds. You need user interaction, it can’t be touchless or it’s RCE.

Looks great! Impressive that it looks so slick and feature complete. It’s been a while since I used iTunes, so don’t fully understand where iTunes today is failing. Can you elaborate?

it's possible to get a mostly-classic experience if you use Songs view and enable the column browser, but it just seems like so many small features are buggy, don't work the same or have been removed that the overall experience just doesn't stack up. iOS syncing is as terrible and slow as ever.

Beautiful app, well done. Pleaaaaaaaase make this available on iOS. Bonus points if the desktop version could do syncing with my iPhone. I could finally treat my iPhone like an iPod!

Yes, iPhone is target once mac stable release is complete as the core logic can be shared between 2 platforms.

I haven’t done a detailed comparison, but there’s been a free app called Decoupled [1] on iOS that supports various formats and loading music into it. The app hasn’t been updated in about four years though.

[1]: https://decoupled.app/

There's already the excellent Doppler app for offline music on iOS.

I use and recommend Evermusic for offline listening on iOS. It can fetch music from your cloud storage accounts too.

Is the alpha currently limited to max 200 songs? Because I can't seem to get it to add more.

Also, I'd like to ask if it currently supports smart playlists?

Congratulations on your work!

No there's no limit on number of songs but there's a bug where if any track's metadata violates db constraints, scanning doesn't go past it. I've fixed it already and will include the fix in next alpha. I also need to get that auto-updates sorted now that folks are actually using it! :D

Will it support playing lossless files in FLAC or ALAC format? Will it be able to change the audio sampling rate per song to match the song's sampling rate?

> Everything you'd expect from an offline music player!

I'd expect winamp-level UI customization, cross-platform support, iTunes library smart playlist support...

Ah, I guess he was talking to the person behind you

I don’t expect customisation or cross-platform support. I’d love smart playlists, though. And an old-school visualiser.

Anyway, I really like this app. I hope it will stick around, it is a joy to use.

I don't have my own music collection, but because of this I'd consider finding a way to have it to switch away from online providers.

> macOS 14 or later

That’s a pretty high bar for a Mac app assuming some hardcore offline music lovers might use older OS versions.

I agree. Although Swift / SwiftUI is not much fun if you can't use the latest features / APIs. The author mentions "learn Swift and macOS app development" as one of the motivations to make this, so I can understand that decision.

I started with only macOS 15 for starters, but I agree it might be possible to support even older versions so I'll check if this can be improved in future alpha or beta builds.

Get a malware warning when trying to open disk image, Sequoia refuses to open it :(

If it's just a signing thing that Apple checks, you open run it by doing `xattr -d com.apple.quarantine filename` first.

or I think if you right click and then open the app, macOS lets you run it.

fwiw this won't work in macOS 15.6

Why isn't it signed properly though.

Probably because that requires a paid account ($100/yr).

Right-click and select open as the app is currently signed using ad-hoc signing as Apple notarization costs money. :(

How's this compare to the native macos music app formerly known as itunes?

Anything is better than that dumpster fire. They changed the name but the ui is still straight out of the early 2000s. It’s an exercise in frustration to find the music you’re looking for, and if you subscribe to Apple Music, the radio suggestions rarely match what mood you set.

I was listening to some early 2000s alternative rock today and then randomly in the middle of my radio station it started playing a kids freeze dance song.

The best thing it has going for it is the lossless albums and native airplay casting. I got a free trial, but I’m not going to renew. I’d consider staying if they added native last.fm scrobbling, but even then I’m not sure.

I’m really bummed about the scrobbling because I lost several weeks of not a month of plays because my phone offloaded the scrobbler app and I didn’t notice. The official app for it on Mac says to use one or the other (macOS or iOS) because it will count twice.

> Anything is better than that dumpster fire.

Nonsense, you could be using Spotify.

I’m going to try giving up on all of them and just growing my local collection monthly instead.

the best-selling point in Spotify for me is discovering/suggesting new music. Sadly, it's not possible to do that when hosting local music, at least for now.

I think Last.fm provides recommendations? And maybe ListenBrainz does, too.

>the ui is still straight out of the early 2000s

There was a lot of great UI back then! None of it in iTunes, but still.

Feels like none of what you wrote is about how the native app compares to the app being discussed, Petrichor, which is an offline music organizer/player.

I have been using itunes/music to do that and it honestly works just fine. I have hundreds of playlists from over 10 years ago that still works. Finding specific playlist or music to play is pretty easy, especially with Alfred.

The longevity is the biggest concern to me when considering the third party apps. If it stops being maintained in the future I would be stuck and need to do the chore of moving them properly to another application. With the native app I am sure it will work for the next 20 years.

My big gripe with Music is that big butt-ugly modal ad they prompt you with if you're one of the billions of humans that don't pay for Apple Music: https://discussions.apple.com/thread/253368403

It's something I'd have expected out of Microsoft, but from Apple it's a particularly shitty gesture. A big warning sign to the user that "your" device hasn't been fully paid-off yet.

> The longevity is the biggest concern to me when considering the third party apps.

And that's why I had to stop using MacOS entirely. It's absurd for a culture of paid software to have such horrible runtime compatibility. Meanwhile on Windows, you don't ever buy software that stops working. Even Linux has largely circumvented it's own ABI woes with sandboxed packaging. MacOS's statically linked app framework has every advantage in pushing out support timelines as far as Apple wants - they just don't want to push it very far, sadly.

> They changed the name but the ui is still straight out of the early 2000s.

You’re unfair. iTunes’ UI was much better in 2003 than Music.app’s in 2025.

Congratulations on the release! This looks really cool!

foobar for Mac

https://www.foobar2000.org/mac

omg how have I missed this. thanks!

I think it’s a fairly recent port.

Airplay is kind of a must

Or you're gonna kick his ass?

Looks clean. Good work

I've been looking for exactly this for the longest time. Using Foobar2000 right now but looking for something better and I think this might be it.

HOWEVER.

I can't run it. I get a message. '"Petrichor.app" can't be opened because Apple cannot check it for malicious software'

I've tried the release dmg and also the homebrew version.

I use Roon.

Roon is well regarded but it's paid for and not open source.

Imagine the title being "... a free, open-source, offline music player for <any other OS>"

For me, the ideal music player UI started and ended with Winamp, and I never liked any of the higher level ones, no need for music libraries etc. Recursive directory scan, delete what is not needed, flat playlist, can save any, the end. Also, the minimalistic window of Winamp is just perfect.

The 'Win' in Winamp was referring to Windows. This is a Mac application.

There is a mac clone https://re-amp.ru/

Neat, but source code would be nice.

The platform is irrelevant, that UI design would apply to most platforms (MacOS for sure).

Winamp is OG, so why not both!

Winamp was annoying to use and the vast majority of the themes were butt ugly. iTunes’ single window streamlined UI was much better. It was perfectly happy with whatever recursive folder structure you wanted and its mini player window was just fine and was not an eye sore.

The big advantage of Winamp was that it ran on Windows, and on ancient PCs at the time.

Show HN: Petrichor – a free, open-source, offline music player for macOS