Comment by signal11 | Hacker News Reader

Comment by signal11 | Hacker News Reader

Parent Full thread

It seems to be a direct translation of the word करणीय (karaniya, that which needs to be done) in many Indic languages.

A more idiomatic translation might be “please get this done”; the “needful” phrase might also be a signal that the writer isn’t that familiar with idioms used in other English-speaking countries.

Hobson-Jobson[1] had a great early compilation of some phrases that arose in the subcontinent— many are still in use.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hobson-Jobson

PS. there’s some evidence from Google Books[2] that “do the needful” might be an old English legal term as well. More research is definitely required. The bigger point is, the phrase’s popularity in India may be because it mirrors a Sanskrit-derived word often still used in Indian legal contexts.

[2] A Glossary of Words and Phrases Usually Regarded as Peculiar to the United States, 1860

https://books.google.com/books?id=VXdIAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA428&dq=%...

Saying this as someone whose first language is Hindi, I have never used this word nor heard anyone else use it. I think whatever similarities there are might be coincidental. Can't say about other Indian languages.

It comes from Sanskrit[1] and is fairly common in languages which use Sanskrit derived terms in large numbers eg some dialects of Bengali, but more importantly “sarkari” (government) Hindi which is way more Sanskitized vs regular Hindi. Regular Hindi even in the Gangetic plains is way more “hybrid”, and this is way before you come to eg Mumbai Hindi.

Here’s the term in gov.in: https://www.google.com/search?q=%E0%A4%95%E0%A4%B0%E0%A4%A3%...

Of course the Indian government loves “do the needful” as well: https://www.google.com/search?q=%22do+the+needful%22+site%3A...

But there’s evidence that “do the needful” might be an old English legal term as well. I’ve updated the parent comment. Further research is definitely required.

[1] https://sanskritabhyas.in/%E0%A4%95%E0%A4%B0%E0%A4%A3%E0%A5%...

> But there’s evidence that “do the needful” might be an old English legal term as well. I’ve updated the parent comment. Further research is definitely required.

Huh. Using Google Books I found "do the needful" as far back as the 17th century. The 17th century hit and 19th century hits were almost all in the context of Mercantile Law, but the several 18th century hits weren't in a legal context, though perhaps the authors were importing legal terminology.

The Mercantile Law usage makes me wonder if the phrase nonetheless found its origin in India, given the centuries-long commercial and legal ties between Britain and India. OTOH, it's a rather natural turn of phrase in English. I'm surprised it isn't more common, though our (American) modern, over-sexed, adolescent culture gives rise to distracting connotations.

I get that but my point is that this word is (almost?) never used colloquially. Lots of terms are used in government, official and legal contexts that are almost never used informally. So all I am saying is that people don't use needful because it is a direct translation of karaniya since they don't use the latter themselves.

In French people also say "veuillez faire le nécessaire" , literally please do the necessary", which sounds similar in sentence structure

Reply on news.ycombinator.com