Personally (and contrary to the other comment about LA) it’s been the best place I have lived. It’s a polarizing city, understandably. But I think if you can make enough money and are ok with driving there’s endless amounts of things to do and passionate people to meet.
I’m someone who is currently struggling to find these people; what has worked for you? It often feels that everyone cool is trapped in their car, and we are destined to never cross paths.
1. Neighborhood matters a lot. This determines the kinds of events you’ll go to and people you see regularly. I explored a lot before I settled some place that felt like home. I live some place with good walkability and being able to walk to a coffee shop or park has been very important.
2. Hobbies. Outdoor fitness, DIY/underground music, and board games for me. It took some digging to find groups I liked (some of which I found out about online and some by asking people I met), but now I participate in at least one event/meetup pertaining to these hobbies every week (more if I can). Ex helping out at a DIY show, run clubs, hiking groups, board game meetups.
3. Having a dog. I’m outside regularly bumping into people. Having a dog often sparks a conversation and helped me to know my neighbors. You don’t really need a dog though any way you can open a conversation is good. Compliment someone’s shirt, ask a question, etc
So TL;DR walkable neighborhood that suits you, find something related to your hobbies and do it as much as you can, start conversations.
Good luck, it took me years before I got into a rhythm.
Always good advice to have a dog.
If your lifestyle precludes a dog, are you entirely sure you have decent lifestyle?
Dogs have taught me so much about loyalty, love and joy.
Some dogs also teach patience....
But how is the cost of living? or is that already factored in?
Edit: this is my personal opinion, I shouldn’t be so harsh on SF. Obviously a ton of great food and talented people there, it’s just not for me.
It's the first time the conference has been on the west coast in quite a while, and I'm hoping we can attract a bunch of Los Angeles area Pythonistas who didn't make the trek out to Pittsburgh or Salt Lake City or Cleveland.
If you are part of the LA Python-adjacent tech scene I encourage you to consider coming along! It's a genuinely great community-led conference, attracting over 2,000 attendees.
It would be really cool if we could attract enough entertainment industry people to get sessions on Python in film production, VFX, animation and other creative industries.
Startups in LA are interesting. Back in the day, there was a lot of Ad Tech / advent of big data. This is when Snapchat and Hulu were coming up. I’d go on Angellist and see who was hiring and who’d be down to meet.
Now, especially post covid, I feel sparks of excitement. I missed the crypto hype in LA so that was probably wild and weird. a16z opened an office in Santa Monica and do their speedrun accelerator. Focused on games and media it seems.
upfront hosted some cool cowork and mingle events too.
Two meetups I regularly go to is AI Tinkerers and MLOps. Generally it’s the same small crowd. I went to a Ruby meetup which was cool too.
Less of a young startup crowd. Maybe people got older and rich and retired early.
I really enjoyed my time there and would love to hear, what surprised you most about how LA has changed?
things still go viral - pop ups are very popular with the young crowd. owalla was giving out water bottles and the line was around the block and i didnt see the end of the line
The tech scene is not doing so well imo. people say gaming is cyclical but idk tbh. AI adoption in graphic design and coding is really going to squeeze an already stressed gaming labor pool. entertainment industry is much the same.
i cant name one young rising startup that was hot like snapchat. so that was disappointing when i was job hunting.
traffic is still bad. smog is less bad.
> i cant name one young rising startup that was hot like snapchat. so that was disappointing when i was job hunting.
I’ve had the same thought. Maybe Tinder or Oculus (pre-acquisition), but those feel like they were a while ago now.
nooo
i wonder what other people think
But weather is incontestable, food culture exciting, if you have a creative itch to scratch you can bump into a major creative professional accidentally at a bar (like a TV animator or music recording producer/engineer who works for one of the major labels) and before you know it you have a pilot episode or album you’re ready to pitch. shrugs
LAX will get you anywhere in the world non-stop and is easier to make compared to JFK.
As far as the vibe goes, it's nothing like the bay when it comes to tech. LA is way more laid back and people are much less focused on tech. In the bay I constantly overheard people talking about tech or overheard people talking about VC/startups. Rarely ever in LA. The bay is really intense in that way.
I lived in Seattle too. As far as tech scene/startups obsession goes, it was Bay > Seattle >> LA.
With that said, there's a decent community. It's easy to find meetups, etc.
A lot of people are responding with complaints or praise for life in general in LA. That wasn't part of your question so I'll just keep it brief; on the whole, I dislike living here and feel it is one of America's most mismanaged cities but cannot just pack up and leave for various social reasons.
I'm genuinely just curious what makes you think LA is uniquely mismanaged in a way that other tier-1 cities in America are not. I don't have too much experience with LA but am familiar enough.
LA is top 1-5 in US cities by GDP (and to be fair so are the others you mentioned except for Seattle), so I personally see it as a hugely negative mark on our local and national character to have large parts of it be dirty, choked to death by traffic, have insanely high rents, etc. I don't know if other cities have quite as many structural aberrations in their governance as LA despite seeing many of the same issues - I don't know whether it would relieve or horrify me to learn that they don't.
Fwiw, SJ is bigger than SF and absolutely better managed, but definitely less vibrant. Personally, I would choose San Diego over LA, and if I wanted to keep a tech job there's lots if you're ok with biotech/healthcare or defense.
Just to give a "small" microcosm of this that's somewhat high profile in the city of LA: there was recently an attempt to audit the city's homeless efforts after years of voters approving, multiple times, billions and billions of dollars to fight homelessness. It recently came out that there have essentially been no institutional controls or tracking of the outcomes resulting from the deployment of those funds. So here you have the populace saying "yes, take my money and let's fix this," over and over again. And then you have the city government attempting to do it so poorly that you can't help but see it as utter mismanagement, at best, or pure corruption, at worst (a combination of both most likely).
Being here on the ground you can almost feel this, block by block, neighborhood by neighborhood, and then obviously even beyond the city limits. Yet a lot of us, as shown in this very thread, still think it's a great place to be, and somehow can work itself out from these problems. I'm not so sure anymore.
Seminal point, at the moment, I think, with the ICE crackdowns on a significant chunk of the city population, with the aftermath of the fire, a federal government that doesn't seem to want to support its "alpha" blue cities. Not sure if that means something's about to break, or if it's actually a chance for rebirth. I'm pulling for the latter, but think we're going to have to walk through (maybe too soon to say) fire before things materially improve.
Know that has nothing to do with tech in LA, but thought I'd chime in all the same.
There are fewer tech jobs than LA, but most of the FAANGs have offices here. There are a lot more options for housing than LA, and a lot less traffic.
For instance, my ~5 bedroom house is worth around 2 million in a nice neighborhood and i'm a 10 minute drive from a huge Amazon office, a 10 minute drive from Blizzard HQ, and a 25 minute drive from a decent size Google office.
A similarly priced and sized house in Los Angeles would be a 80 minute commute to either Amazon, Google or Meta in Santa Monica.
But LA has high rent and public transportation isn't really usable.
People are mean.
I wouldn't suggest LA to anyone.
The city definitely has tech jobs, but you might have a job in the valley now, get laid off and have to drive to Culver City. Super commutes of 1 hour each way are common.
Back in Chicago when I switched jobs I basically just rode the metro for an extra 5 minutes.
If I really wanted to I could of gotten off at the same train station, went to the cafe I liked, and walked 10 minutes to my new office.
In LA you can easily have one job in Santa Monica or Venice and end up needing to switch to a job in the valley. Your commute can go from 20 minutes to 60 or 70 each way.
As is car ownership is a horrible burden( particularly in high traffic areas, living in a suburb/ slightly rural area and coasting to work could be nice). Driving is really dangerous and stressful too. I'd rather read comics on a nice train ride into the office.
But it is not suitable for every personality type. If you struggle to make friends, you will struggle more in LA.
If you work in tech, you are likely of a certain social persuasion (though not necessarily).
In which case this advice holds. But you shouldn't frame it as an absolute. It is personality dependent.
It's just math.
Chicago, no need for a car, rent is 1600$ within walking distance of a metro station. A monthly metro pass is about 100$.
1700$.
In LA, 2700$ for an apartment. 500$ car payment, 300$ insurance, 200$ for gas. About 100$ a month on stuff like parking and basic maintenance.
3800$.
If you have an extra 2100$ a month to tell everyone you live in LA, that's great. But the next problem is most people in LA are struggling. It's complex, but this factors into the quality of people you meet.
Personally it's the difference between driving around a 30 year old Instagram model who has no real interest in you, but expects you to pay for stuff vs dating an amazing 30 year old with a solid career.
Outside of dating, in LA you have "friends" who will beg you for money and then resent when you help them out. This weird interiority complex develops.
I've lived in about 3 major metros for any real period of time. LA is by far the worst. Concerts are fun, the food is good, but it's just a really hard place to live.
Now 20 years ago, you still had 500,600$ apartments for working class people. It USED to be an affordable city. But that's gone now.
I miss that Los Angeles. I miss my 600$ Ktown apartment, 4$ tortas, 3$ bottles of Soju.
It was an amazing place once. Doesn't really matter if it's completely unaffordable now.
Yes, it is expensive. But pay is higher too. If you are middle of the road earner, you will have to live in the valley or another suburb, yes. But even those are among the most prized places to live in the USA.
Your quantitative approach intrinsically flattens the qualitative dimension out of the lived experience. Where else can you find Mexican, Korean, Japanese, Armenian, and Thai culture alive and well within their own neighborhoods in a 5 mile radius? Or even all on the same block? NYC is the closest, but LA arguably has the better food and culture (people are more liberal and accepting in LA). LA is also ground zero for the resistance against the rise of Trump's fascist reich. For many people those things are invaluable, especially if they are non-white (which perhaps you're not, so that may be lost on you.)
It's fine if LA does not offer anything of worth to you, but that isn't going to be the case for everybody. Source: the 20 million or so people that live in LA County must like something, because they stay there (and that number is always growing) despite being the most expensive place in the US.
And for the record, I moved to LA 20 years ago. I remember the $600 apartments - I had one by UCLA.
I am sensitive to the rising cost of housing (though the new state law about zoning should ameliorate that in the coming years). But the reason you move to LA isn't for affordable housing.
Assuming you are good at what you do, you should not be making the same financial calculations today as you made 20 years ago.
I was making a solid 6 figure salary and found myself more or less barely making it in LA.
Everything you said about diversity and culture could be said about Chicago too.
I guess if I was at 250k LA wouldn't be that bad, but on a social level I found people much more pleasant in Chicago.
If you have a bad home life you can move out earlier in Chicago.
Back in LA half the time I went out with someone they'd complain about their Mom for 2 hours. I met a lot of people in very very bad situations with no real hope of escaping.
>For many people those things are invaluable, especially if they are non-white (which perhaps you're not, so that may be lost on you.)
I'm definitely not white. Chicago is liberal. It has one of the only Chinatowns in America that's actually growing. Boystown is one of the oldest LGBT communities in America.
I don't think I'm going to change your opinion here, but when it comes to numbers, LA is just a difficult city.
If you have the money, and LA is giving you something you can get elsewhere, great.
But that's not going to change the economics of the situation. I know I'd rather save money and strive in Chicago vs struggle in LA.
The moment I landed everything was great. I met a great girl almost instantly, I can’t stress enough how nicer people are when they can afford their basic needs.
Diversity?
From what popalchemist is saying you’d figure LA is the only city with non white people.
In Chicago I frequent a Slavic/Asian restaurant. They don’t do fusion, no, you get Slavic and Asian food on the same menu!
Kingston Mines! Best Jazz I’ve ever seen. Excellent food, friendly staff.
The L( metro system) is a living museum, you get to ride trains which date back over a century into the office.
It’s not perfect, I found the job scene to be a bit boring, but it’s one of the last livable cities in America.
Yeah the job scene isn't amazing but the average pay is well above what you need to live very comfortably. The winters aren't as bad as people think (and getting warmer), the summers are beautiful, the free neighborhood music festivals all summer are so much fun (Lincoln Square this weekend, wicker park is coming up).
Glad you're enjoying it here
The price of good transit is everlasting vigilance. Make sure to always argue for increased funding.
A lot of people would rather spend another 10k annually owning a car vs 1000$ a year in additional taxes. Not to mention the more people drive the worst traffic is and the more miserable the actual experience or driving is.
My dream city would be more or less car free ( exemptions for emergency and commercial vehicles) with a full blow Autobahn as a connecting freeway.
When I drive I want to DRIVE. Not sit in traffic for an hour.
I mean yeah NYC and Chicago get very close (if not match--i mean idk about Armenian specifically but you'll find 5 different ethnic neighborhoods within 5 miles, easy)
I know this sounds made up but it's true - you can do the research yourself if you're inclined. LA is hands down the most diverse place in the world. Definitely beats out NYC, despite NYC having that reputation, because NYC has been culturally more hostile to the upward mobility and long-term settlement of immigrant populations, whereas LA existed as indigenous land, and as Mexico, before it was part of the US, and that attitude has allowed immigrants to set roots here and claim identity and belonging in a way that no other place does or has.
>On May 3, 1913, California enacted the Alien Land Law, designed to deny Japanese families their foothold in America by denying them the right to own land.
https://eji.org/news/californias-alien-land-laws/
I was done with this thread, but your not going to rewrite history.
Even well into the 60s non white people weren't allowed to buy homes outside of certain areas.
That singular thing is not representative of the culture or policy at large, is over 100 years old, and isn't the present reality. Broadly speaking California and specifically LA are the most culturally progressive places on earth.
Yes, those rules existed in various rich neighborhoods at times in the past. They don't anymore. What's your point? My claim is not that there were no racists or racist policies at all within the LA area.
So yeah, that's a straw man. And a very pathetic one at that.
Your own comment references a time before California was even a part of Mexico.
A more recent example.
>When South Vietnam and Cambodia fell to communists in April 1975, Gov. Brown, who had just succeeded Ronald Reagan, fought the arrival of hundreds of thousands of Vietnamese and Cambodian refugees. In the process, Mr. Brown and other Democrats engaged in xenophobic rhetoric.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/when-jerry-brown-tried-to-keep-...
Not to mention 3 strikes and other tough on crime policies.
A fixed tax on housing which is the most unprogressive policy you can imagine.
Etc. This isn't to say LA is horrible , it's just not some unique magical place.
Whereas the random bits of historical information you are bringing up do not speak to a lasting or pervasive reality. LA is a "sanctuary city" and that is the reason it is currently being targeted by the fascists with the federal troop occupation.
Anyway you are making bad faith and low effort arguments. If you dislike the place, just admit it.
As for whether LA is magical - "Magical" is literally one of the most common words used to describe LA and SoCal in general, as in, it is part of the zeitgeist that LA is "La La Land" (meaning for better or worse, the place where creatives pursue their dreams and/or delusions).
Every detail of your comments fall apart upon close inspection.
You are not making valid arguments. You are hating. Admit it.
You are a hater.
I like LA and i like California. You're just genuinely being ridiculous.
Thank you for helping out. Usually I would of given up earlier, but I couldn't let someone say California has always been welcoming to immigrants unanswered.
Apart of being better as people is looking at the past and facing it.
No place is perfect.
Chicago has issues. LA has issues.
I live in what was recently the most diverse zip code in the US. Not in LA, not in NYC, but in Chicago.
You're just extremely biased.
Literally billions of people exist outside of LA, and while LA does have a lot of cultural influence generally, you might be surprised how much of the world’s culture and creativity happens outside of it. At the very least NYC probably has a strong argument to make here, not to mention places like Hong Kong, Beijing, or Tokyo.
And with all the money I save not living in LA I can actually visit those places!
Google is in Playa Vist and Venice, Amazon has a big office in Santa Monica, SNAP is on the west side of LA, etc. A SFH in any of those cities is 4M or more, and the more popular places for families to live is easily an hour and twenty minutes away (burbank, pasadena, the valley).
Orange County has fewer big tech companies but they do have a larger Google and Amazon office (~1k each I belive?), but the cost of living is quite a bit lower.
Less options though if the job situation changes.
It's still California so all the usual things like NIMBY zoning and prop 13 ruin the built environment. That being said, a lot of LA was built before the 80s so it's not as sprawling as the Bay. There are almost no tech buses so you need to plan life around commuting.
https://www.addtheegg.com/p/2024-la-hard-tech-50
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/story/el-segundo-california-...
https://bowoftheseus.substack.com/p/south-bay-la-is-ground-z...