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Comment by bunderbunder | Hacker News Reader

Not OP, but this seems like a decent source for the claim. It lists 12 cars under $25K MSRP: https://www.motortrend.com/features/cheapest-new-cars

That said, we picked up one of the cars on this list for well under $15,000 in 2010. (And it's still going strong! Never needed a major repair.) Which doesn't really mean anything, just throwing out yet another anecdote to highlight that nobody's presented any information that actually supports or contradicts the major premise that cars are getting less affordable. Segmenting your data by picking arbitrary cutoffs (like $25,000) has its own chapter in the classic book How to Lie With Statistics.

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> Not OP, but this seems like a decent source for the claim. It lists 12 cars under $25K MSRP: https://www.motortrend.com/features/cheapest-new-cars

I need a source for the year 2005 not 2025. Of course, it is easier to have a source for 2025.

Here is 2005 list:

- Chevrolet Aveo – Starting at $9,455

- Kia Rio – Starting at $10,570

- Hyundai Accent – Starting at $10,999

- Toyota Echo – Starting at $11,110

- Ford Focus ZX3 – Starting at $13,365

- Chevrolet Cavalier – Starting at $13,405

- Chrysler PT Cruiser – Starting at $13,995

- Dodge Neon SXT – Starting at $14,195

- Pontiac Sunfire – Starting at $14,200 see: https://www.kbb.com/pontiac/sunfire/2005

-Saturn Ion – Starting at $14,430 - see https://www.kbb.com/saturn/ion/2005

It is based on this links: https://www.edmunds.com/car-reviews/top-10/top-10-cars-under... This is article from 2005 (at least metadata says that). The prices are verified via kbb.com which has original MSRP for all used cars.

That's a list of "top 10 cars under $15k".

It's not all cars under $15k, just the best 10 among the multitude.

Yeah I know you could get a basic model Corolla for around $12k in 2006 or so.

This does not match the KBB.com: https://www.kbb.com/toyota/corolla/2005/

I’m just saying that I 100% understand that you think it was “cheaper before” but there is no data to show that. I honestly feel the same. Toyota Corolla was 13k in 2000: https://www.kbb.com/toyota/corolla/2000 - 25 years ago.

The core of my argument is this: today’s news manipulates perception by playing on emotions, which ultimately distorts the truth.

This article isn’t overly political, which makes it easier for us to debate without resorting to calling each other Nazis or communists. But when it comes to politics, distortion of truth happens all the time.

Bold of you to talk about distortion of truth when you are the main perpetrator of it in this thread.

Your claim of "only 10 models under $15k in 2005" is patently false, based on logic where the "Forbes 30 under 30" list is evidence that only 30 people exist younger than 30.

So yeah I guess your core argument is true, but you demonstrated by perpetuating it...

Please find a car which is missing. I was unable to find a single one.

And I also made the mistake with the list for 2025: there are 20 cars less than 25k in 2025.

See? You found problem with 2005 but you happily ignored that fact that I missed cars from 2025.

Why? Because it fits your world view. And that is how marketing works: you are convinced that cars are getting more expensive and no amount of data will change your view.

And posts on hubspot like this are paid by companies not making sub-$25k cars.

> I was unable to find a single one.

Sure you were. You already found a single one and discussed it just above.

Let me quote your own link back to you: https://www.kbb.com/toyota/corolla/2005/

A Toyota Corolla MSRP'd for $14,220 in 2005.

We haven't even started discussing your 2025 list, I'm just criticizing that you used a "top 10" list as a source saying "there were only 10 vehicles that existed meeting this criteria".

Meanwhile, if you look at your other sources, the Pontiac Sunfire link you posted shows that one did MSRP just over $15k, despite it being on your "top 10" list.

You really are in no position to criticize other people for "no amount of data will change your position", when all the data that you have presented so far is some combination of misleading, incorrect, or hallucinated.

With discounts and negotiation, you can get below MSRP. A 12k Corolla was certainly feasible in 2006.

Everything that has increased by more than income growth has gotten less affordable. Thankfully it seems to be happening to all the most expensive things housing, vehicles, education, healthcare, etc (/s incase not obvious)

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