Why Do Swallows Fly to the Korean DMZ? | Hacker News Reader

Why Do Swallows Fly to the Korean DMZ?

sapiens.org

95 pointsgaws50 comments

You can tell who did and who did not read this article. In it, sparrows are a metaphor for Koreans and their descendants who were displaced by the Korean War.

Some comments can go either way. I only see one that really looks like they didn't read the article. Top level subtweeting seems like a bit much for that.

>Top level subtweeting seems like a bit much for that.

And there you go with the bird puns!

I came for the birds, stayed for the metaphor.

You're for the birds?

If they stay in the DMZ they might be if NK rolls in.

Hehe I'm not sure what that expression means in the US but in Ireland it means "crazy"

It means “worthless” in the US

Would have been more interesting than article #827492748283 about Korea.

I came for the flies, stayed for the swallows.

It looks like it is too much to ask for some people to read the article before commenting. I wonder why they do this, are they being paid to comment? Are they bots?

The thrill of using Hackernews is commenting. If you spend your time reading articles, you have less time for articles you can comment on.

the linked site will be of varying quality. often the site's text will not be readable on $platform. complaining about that is gauche though, and the comments will often have something to reply to anyway.

Not to mention, half the time comment section here is much more informative than the original submission itself.

Some submissions are really worth reading. Others are worth more as conversation starters. Of those, some are submitted (and upvoted) intentionally to be the latter.

That and it’s HACKER news. Basic infosec, never assume positive intent. Generally and by in large the site is incredibly well moderated and the current community is largely good about self policing… that said this site has bigger eyes on it than lets on…

…something something current affairs

The comments don't turn dark and pop up and obnoxious box asking for my email address.

Swallows, not sparrows. (Or did you also not read the article?)

Kim asked me, “Do you know what the function of an estuary is?” [...] “This is where salt and freshwater meet and purifies the water so that it can flow as freshwater into the country,” Kim explained. “Isn’t that remarkable?”

That would indeed be remarkable if it were true, do I just not understand what this is supposed to mean?

At face value, ignoring its role as a metaphor, it doesn't make sense - it's literally the opposite of what's happening.

When you mix salt water and freshwater together, you don't get more freshwater - you turn freshwater into salt water. Replace "fresh" with "clean" and "salt" with "dirty" to make it more obvious.

estuaries are where freshwater leaves the country lol

They’re also where the tide comes in, and estuaries slow down water surges.

So up to a point they keep salt water from fully encroaching.

Lol! Got it all backwards like the whole of nk.

Let me fact check on my etch-a-sketch…

Yep, water still flows downhill.

more accurate title (from the page <title> tag): Legacies of War and the Estuary Crossed by the Korean DMZ

what a wonderfuly written article imho.

i first thought it was about the birds only, not knowing any history of the region really, but its nearly tied into eachother via metaphors, weaving them together to describe a single thing (human experiences within this conflict zone, i think?).

Likely i understand only half of it, knowing nothing about Korea or Koreans, but from what i taste in the article, i'd like to learn more.

Migratory birds seek food and breeding. Nostalgic Koreans seek spirit of place and the road not taken.

It's pleasing how many militarised zones are also oasis for wildlife. British SSI abound on tank practice areas, the fortified border with the FSU and neighbouring states has become a wildlife superhighway, the DMZ (such an odd name when the sole occupants are .. military) likewise.

Wildlife as metaphor. Hope springs eternal.

"She wrapped her arms around my shoulder and said, “My father too.” She gently reached for my hands and introduced me to the group. “She’s a third-generation sirhyangmin (실향민). She’s traveled across the ocean to join us here today. She is a jebi (제비).”" - who's cutting onions?

TIL there are people living inside the Korean DMZ. Or, at least, I think that's what the article implies. It raises a lot of questions, none of which are answered by the article. A quick chat says there's no permanent inhabitants in the Han estuary neutral zone, and that there's a South Korean village and a North Korean (Potemkin?) village in the DMZ somewhere else.

Yeah there's an SK village inside the DMZ, I had lunch there last year on a tour. It's both wild and utterly unremarkable at the same time. There's a high fence around it, and you're warned not to go over that fence as there are land mines around it (as if someone would climb a, what, 2.5m fence while on a tourist tour?). The thing I found most remarkable is that house prices there are not much less than in Seoul proper (that's what I was told at least), which just seemed utterly absurd - what market forces could drive prices of a farmer village (because that's what it is, really - although the houses looked nice) surrounded by landmines and that is a pain in the ass to get in and out of to that of a first world metropolis? And although one after the other bus with tourists drove into the small parking lot, there was only a canteen for lunch (with canteen quality food) and a souvenir shop that is described at best as 'functional'.

>The thing I found most remarkable is that house prices there are not much less than in Seoul proper (that's what I was told at least), which just seemed utterly absurd - what market forces could drive prices of a farmer village (because that's what it is, really - although the houses looked nice) surrounded by landmines and that is a pain in the ass to get in and out of to that of a first world metropolis?

You are literally paid to live there and be a human flagpole through a tax-free salary of $82,000 USD for agriculture (as of 2013, likely higher now), as well as free education, agricultural incentives and preferential tax treatment. [1] On top of that, there's only a handful of homes, effectively amounting to an artificial housing scarcity.

[1] https://modernfarmer.com/2013/11/guarded-growing-farm-centri...

If we are talking about Daeseong-dong, Wikipedia says “Only individuals who lived in the village before the Korean War, or are descendants of those who did, are allowed to move to the village”

So the market of potential buyers is quite limited. (Unless they allow absentee landlords-i.e. you can buy this house, it is illegal for you to live in it, but you can legally rent it to someone who can legally live in it.)

Although I imagine “former residents and their descendants” may be a much larger group of people than the current population. Not sure how many might want to move back to their (great) grandparents village though

Oh that's interesting, my tour guide didn't tell me that :)

> s if someone would climb a, what, 2.5m fence while on a tourist tour?

You seriously underestimate human stupidity. People stand on cliff edges to take selfies, pose precariously next to works of art, walk into people's home to have a look,....

> A quick chat says

Does that mean like 'a quick search' but with ChatGPT or similar? Haven't come across that before and I don't think I like it...

"let me relay potentially made-up information because I'm too lazy and/or incompetent to read an article"

  I know an old lady
  She swallowed a fly
  But I don't know why
  She swallow the fly
  I guess she'll die

I just hope she doesn’t swallow a spider to catch that fly.

This is a beautiful example of a Hyangga. You, sir, know your classical Korean poetry. Bravo!

  何為吞蠅  
  蠅永同音一
  化驚腸內舞  

  雙義笑開顏  
  歸路際無定  
  蠅永同音一

  What is this “swallowing flies”?
  “Fly” and “shadow” share the same voice, always.
  In a flash it’s startled -- inside it dances like starlight.

  The double pun draws us to smile.
  Homeward the light finds no single course.
  “Fly” and “shadow” -- one and the same sound.

  燕過非武裝地帶  
  鐵雲如網隔青川  
  碧波照影尋舊隱  
  長空一點寫歸年  

  寥寥邊聲人未到  
  惟有飛羽訴和平  

  Barn swallows slip over the de-armed border.  
  Iron-barbed clouds fence off jade riverbanks.  
  Green waters cast their shapes -- seeking the homes of memory.  
  A lone dot in endless blue writes our season of homecoming.  

  At the silent frontier no footsteps fall.  
  Yet wings alone carry the plea for peace.

This comment is the only hit in Google and Baidu for fragments of the poems. Z-Library also couldn't match anything to a book via full-text search. Furthermore, the translation has issues. For example:

>化驚腸內舞

>In a flash it’s startled -- inside it dances like starlight.

Where did "flash" (or "in a flash") or "starlight" come from? Neither appear in the line. You could maybe translate the line as 消化，它受惊而在场内飞舞: "digested, it is startled and dances in the intestines (~stomach)". But you generally can't tell with Classical Chinese without contextual research, since characters have multiple meanings.

Where did the poems and translations come from?

Because Capistrano was booked?

It's too expensive and too crowded. DMZ is such a better deal.

how else would the coconuts end up there?

what is the airspeed velocity of an unladen swallow flying over the DMZ?

What do you mean? An African or a European swallow?

As it turns out, European.

Because they don't care about politics and borders?

Also maybe a DMZ makes a great nature reserve, untouched by human activity.

And as the article points out, both politics and human activity contribute. Displaced people who live in the DMZ islands build nests for them.

For animals not heavy enough to set off land mones

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