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Comment by emodendroket | Hacker News Reader

I think that phrase ought to be retired simply because even if you are paying money you often still are “the product.”

If you're paying money, you still might not be a company's real customer: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1093781/distribution-of-...

I don’t think it’s even right to think that there’s one “real” customer and one “fake” one really. It seems like an oversimplified model that doesn’t accurately describe how anybody operates besides a mom-and-pop.

The "unsimple" answer is:

1. if you don't have leverage with your vendors, they will not bend over backwards for you

2. companies are not incentivized to respond to complaints with no revenue at risk (e.g. you're going to use youtube anyway)

This is the most important thread here. I don't think even Andrew Lewis saw this coming. Now we are always the product because we lack digital rights. It's all been legislated away.

Yes, and a way out of that is open source, where you aren't a customer…

Absolutely. See TVs for example. Price has gone down because they sell the data of what you're watching.

Drop tens of thousands on a new vehicle at a stealership and you'll get sketchy companies offering warranties on your exact vehicle within a week and then forever-more afterwards.

The way I understand it, usually either the dealership, the software they take your information in, or both typically sell off your data after the sale.

Also I get calls and letters from places asking to buy a vehicle I haven't owned since 2018 regularly.

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