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Comment by vhf | Hacker News Reader

Looks nice, but you would give me one I'd refuse it.

They removed the single feature that made me buy my current X200s : the full keyboard. A real keyboard, with real touch and real keys : http://bit.ly/P3NmYd A keyboard with Ins Hom PgUp Del End PgDn.

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Meh. This complaint is widely overblown IMO. I came from a T61 and an R61 and recently switched to a W530 which has the same keyboard layout as the Carbon. I contemplated the upgrade for an extremely long time and finally jumped.

After a little more than a month of use:

For one, the "real keys" v. chiclet style keys issue is a non-issue for me at this point. They have the same keypress feel for me and there's part of me that prefers this keyboard more.

The Home-PgUp-Del-End-PgDn key issue is going to differ per person is a tricky one for me to elaborate. I hated this keyboard at first since the PgUp and PgDown replaced the forward and backward keys that I used HEAVILY. After cooling down my hatred, I'm completely fine with those keys and the top row of Home-End-Insert-Delete.

After getting used to those my only long-standing complaint is the god damned print screen button. Why in the hell it's next to Alt and Ctrl is beyond me. It's absolutely horrible positioning and I don't think I'd ever forgive Lenovo for this decision.

I also have been using a W530 for the past couple of months. I find the keyboard preferable to the T60 keyboard that was my previous ThinkPad baseline. Perhaps because I am a Linux/vim user, I rarely touch the top-row keys and don't miss them at all.

What many people griping about the changed layout miss is the improvements to the keyboard. The key switches have a better feel to them. While still not as good as the Topre switches on my HHKB, there is a definite improvement from the T60 to the W530. I also like the gently curved keys. It's hard to describe objectively, but my fingers "rest well" on the key caps.

If you're not a hardcore Windows IDE user (or whoever it is who uses Home-PgUp-Del-End-PgDn all the time...) then please ignore the Lenovo-bashing. Lenovo is doing great work putting out top-notch laptops for professionals.

I really hope they have a "Pause" and "Scroll Lock" button on there, too, because...what the hell is a Print Screen button doing on a laptop keyboard in the first place?

Screenshots? Weird to have a dedicated screenshot key, but that's what Windows has done with it for nearly eternity and I'd imagine a few people expect it.

As for the positioning; only logical reason I can fathom is they ran out of room and you can't split up Home/End, etc. (Then again, Microsoft drops Insert on some of it's full keyboards, why not Lenovo?)

That Windows needs a dedicated key for screenshots but usually has two perpetually useless Windows keys that few people ever use still baffles me.

Windows is a museum of bad design decisions that have become so entrenched it's impossible to eliminate even the most obscure ones.

I know I shouldn't feed the troll - but if you look, you'll see that insert, home, end, page-up, page-down, and delete are all still there.

Also, from what I've read the underlying key mechanism is the same. The caps have been made larger and they're curved and thoughtfully shaped.

I played with the new ThinkPad keyboard at a retailer and I think its better.

The biggest loss (and it's a biggie) is the double-high escape key. The rest is a smaller set of biases from a better-designed keyboard over 7 rows to a less well designed one in 6.

I've got a W520 (old keyboard) and my wife's got an X1 (not carbon). There's enough of a difference in the keyboards that I'm hoping they bring back the old one as an option. The keyswitches in both are pretty good, but the layout's actually a big deal for me.

The double-high Delete key is the one I'll really miss.

unfortunately, the most used key on my keyboard as well.

For the last couple years they've been using an optimized "big Delete key" keyboard layout on ThinkPads. They increased the size of common function keys like Delete and Escape for better usability.

I'm not a huge fan of the chiclet keyboard, but I can live with it. But I don't understand why they got rid of the awesome big Delete key changes.

I love the big Esc & Del keys on the X220. I also have last years X1 with the chiclet keyboard and I very much prefer the keyboard on the X220.

A real keyboard, with real touch and real keys

I normally would agree with this, but in reality, when I'm at home or in the office (ie most of my computer use time), I use a DAS keyboard anyway and even the "real key" laptop keyboards just don't compare to mechanical cherry-mx keys anyway, so for the times I use my laptops when I'm away, I don't think it really matters to me if the keyboard has real keys or if its a chiclet keyboard or whatnot.

Yep. I never use the laptop's keyboard. Always use a USB keyboard and have never had any problems (e.g. drivers).

Doing real typing on a tiny little laptop keyboard is for masochists. No shortage of them though. How many people are struggling with a touchscreen at this very moment? Suckers.

I have not used a mouse in over a decade. And I'm not about to start tapping and pinching a tiny little screen because Apple spends a few hundred million on marketing. The sacrafice (speed, ease of use, productivity, etc) is not worth it.

Ha! I use a laptop keyboard at my desktop. Hands never leave home row. I loves me some nipple mouse!

http://shop.lenovo.com/us/itemdetails/55Y9003/460/60AC6A0372...

I do like the nipple mouse, but on the other hand, I do my work in a keyboard-centric linux environment (tiling window manager, vim, keyboard-centric browser).

How long have they been doing the mac-style fn-ctrl-meta-alt layout (rather than BIGctrl-fn-meta-alt like most other keyboards I've had, i.e. ctrl in lower left under shift)? This was one of my main issues with my brand new T530, along with the prn scn button BETWEEN the right ctrl & alt... I'd like to meet the genius who met this (who, presumably, takes in excess of 100 screen captures daily). Those complaints are followed by weight, general flimsiness, & ultra-shitty speakers. I know it's not a media center but they could have picked some speakers that are not subaudible and tinny. I planned to return the thing but Lenovo made clear that they were not cooperating and I gave up. Ubuntu runs pretty well & with Bumblebee the Nvidia doesn't eat up the battery so shrug

Anyway I'm glad to see someone's at least trying to make a decent PC laptop.

You can switch the Fn and Ctrl keys in the BIOS: http://www.geek.com/articles/chips/how-to-swap-the-fn-and-ct... (The only problem then is remembering to use the right key on the rare occasions when you actually look at the keyboard labels.)

Don't know of a nice solution for Print Screen, though.

There are stickers you can buy. Search amazon.com for "keyboard key stickers".

with that said, I'm not sure I would use them - slight change in texture of the key would bother me.

> How long have they been doing the mac-style fn-ctrl-meta-alt layout?

Approximately forever. My X21, released around 2001, predates the spread of the meta key and has a fn-ctrl-alt layout.

No idea who came up with the ridiculous print screen key location though. And at the expense of a menu key, too! That's approaching Toshiba consumer laptop circa 2004 bad.

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