Hacker News Reader

Comment by nitrogen | Hacker News Reader

In a way I find this kind of manipulation tragically sad, but in reality the true tragedy is the cognitive decline associated with Alzheimer's. I'm glad nursing homes have figured out a way to mitigate some of the problems until scientists can cure or prevent Alzheimer's for good.

View on HN

You know what? They're not causing harm and they're helping these patients be in a safe environment so that they do not hurt themselves or others.

I don't find this sad at all, I find it innovating. This is actually a great 'hack' that seems to work and only has positive results.

I always feel sad when I see someone who is completely unaware of what is really going on. But then I realize that a much smarter being than a human might feel the same way about us. Maybe we look just as tragically sad to some genius aliens.

Be honest. You've felt that way about other humans sometimes.

well, yes, that's exactly what they said

I couldn't agree more, my grandad has Alzheimer's and he often forgets that my grandma is dead and says he wants to see her, we have given up trying to explain to him what's happened as it always causes heart ache for everyone so now people lie to him, which I hate to do.

I wish that we had thought of something this simple to distract him, some people may say it's unfair, but isn't 5 minutes of trickery worth sparing them the heart ache that their life has vanished behind them and they have the decrepit body of an 80 or 90 year old person?

The only "tragically sad" part is the fact that most people in developed nations end up in institutions, rather than being cared for by their families.

If you want to see "tragically sad," volunteer at any nursing home in the US with a dementia/Alzheimer's ward. It's a prison where everyone's on death row, the only difference is the food sucks.

What they're doing by going along with their delusions is offering these elderly people more peace in their confusion. Interrupting a delusion abruptly is like slapping a baby for crying - they can't help their situation and limitations and they won't understand the punishment.

Is leaving them completely alone for ten hours a day, five days a week really that much better? Especially with dementia, where they could wander off with no one even attempting to stop them.

Looking after someone with dementia is a full time job which is very emotionally draining and people can live many years with dementia. A lot of people could not afford to look after their loved ones, economically or mentally.

I imagine you'll quit your job when the time comes to look after your parents?

If I ever get dementia I'd like to be euthanasied, rather than have my children suffer through it.

> I imagine you'll quit your job when the time comes to look after your parents?

One of my dad's coworkers did exactly that. He gave up his high paying six-figure job to go back to India to take care of his dad.

I know that some people can do this and good on them for doing it, but not everyone will be in the position to do it.

My grandfather had Alzheimer's for over a decade. It was always the goal to give him the best care. When possible, the family took care of him. But it's taxing. Eventually, my grandfather--not a violent person at all--started to become violent. (I've heard this is common for people with his condition.) That's when we know that he needed professional care. There are times when its in everyone's best interest to seek help from an institution.

"Tragically sad?" This is brilliantly creative, and much more humane than keeping them under lock and key or in restraints.

It's a brilliantly creative solution to the problem, but that does not change the fact that the situation is tragic and sad.

tragic and sad are suggestive emotions. Thus you should understand that there are people like him and I that don't find that tragic and sad at all.

I was responding to the suggestion that such "manipulation" was tragically sad. The fact of the illusion being necessary is tragically sad but it happens all of our lives, why stop with senility?

It's a treatment, not a cure. It's for their good, but it's still deception. I find it creepy. A true solution would be making them not forget.

I think it's tragic because it's an indication of a) how terrible some diseases can be, and b) how powerless we are to stop them.

Yes, the best solution would be cure the disease, but the nursing home staff are not going to be the ones working on a cure. They have a different set of responsibilities than the noble goal of finding a cure for Alzheimer's.

Sadly this only works in places where public transportation is effective and has been so for a long time.

Oh for God's sake! These are OLD people, they remember public transport (which also still exists in Europe). A fake cafe, a fake second hand bookshop, anything that will make them pause and get less agitated.

What made you upset? muyuu's point is that if public transportation wasn't an effective method of transportation when they were younger, the patients won't associate the sign with going home.

And I don't see how a fake cafe or bookshop will attract them? They want to go home, not drink coffee.

If you're going to go to the trouble of making a fake cafe or bookshop, you might as well make the real thing. The point of the fake bus stop is that it's trivially easy to do.

More importantly, the bus stop attracts seniors who are trying to leave the facility, which is dangerous because they aren't able to do so safely, and are likely to end up lost and dying of exposure or exhaustion.

A fake cafe or bookshop wouldn't really be any more useful than the cafeteria or day room that the facility probably already has.

Well, it could be useful to create a more comfortable atmosphere. This hypothetical assisted living center would be set up to look just like a small open air mall surrounded by apartments, except all the workers in all the shops are nurses.

Just to comment on myself: I may have misunderstood the meaning of the word "fake" in this context. A "fake cafe" could still serve coffee, just not to the public at large.

Here in Colombia a fake bus stop would mean buses would use it anyway.

In fact, they still use almost every corner as a bus stop.

The fake bus stop could be on a private road or driveway that the actual buses never travel on.

Hell, the fake bus stop could probably be on a gravel path that doesn't actually connect with public roads, as long as the ends of the path are hidden behind trees.

There was a nursing home in my home town that had a rural American analogue: a car that didn't start in the nursing home's back yard.

The anecdotes I heard weren't about rushing home to their families, but rather, using the car for things like getting groceries. Apparently it was a very successful tool.

I can envision future nursing homes with roaring fake Humvees and other SUVs. Fake tube stations where it may apply.

I find it very endearing to be honest. I know how it feels to be lost and confused, wanting to be home. When you're extremely tired, when you've lost a loved one... I feel for these frail older people.

The Aegis assisted living facility in Aptos, CA has a non-running old car installed in the back. Residents can polish it and sit inside.

http://www.aegisliving.com/aegis-living-of-aptos/gallery/

At first I was going to say "what a sad reflection on American culture" (the fact that the car is the enduring anchor of the Alzheimer patient), but then I realized they could use the same single car for all their patients, so it is, in a way, mass transit.

What you think is tragically sad, I find very funny, very clever and a real life-hack.

Tragically sad would be to keep fighting with the patients every day.

Actually, it is also an effective way to help patients relax and alleviate their anxiety. And, it is for the good of patients. Even if it is manipulation, it's a great deal better than situations where a manipulator is trying to get an advantage. E.g. you are told partial truth at work by the management. etc...

It shouldn't be regarded as manipulation IMHO.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com