Microsoft Office migration from Source Depot to Git

It uses the same technology that's built into Windows that the remote drive programs (probably) use.

Personally I kind of still want some sort of server based VCS which can store your entire companies set of source without needing to keep the entire history locally when you check out something. But unfortunately git is still good enough to use on an ad-hoc basis between machines for me that I don't feel the need to set up a central server and CI/CD pipeline yet.

Also being able to stash, stage hunks, and interactively rebase commits are features that I like and work well with the way I work.

I started a job at MSFT in 2004 and I recall someone explaining that VSS was unsafe and prone to corruption. No idea if that was true, or just lore, but it wasn't an option for work anyway.

One of the people who joined Microsoft via the acquisition was Brian Harry, who led the development of Team Foundation Version Control (part of Team Foundation Server - TFS) which used SQL Server for its storage. A huge improvement in manageability and reliability over VSS. I think Brian is retired now - his blog at Microsoft is no longer being updated.

From my time using VSS, I seem to recall a big source of corruption was it's use of network file locking over SMB. If there were a network glitch (common in the day) you'd have to repair your repository. We set up an overnight batch job to run the repair so we could be productive in the mornings.

Can't explain TFS though, that was still garbage internally and externally.

I spent a couple years at Microsoft and our team used Source Depot because a lot of people thought that our products were special and even Microsoft's own source control (TFS at the time) wasn't good enough.

I had used TFS at a previous job and didn't like it much, but I really missed it after having to use Source Depot.

And afaik P4 still does good business, because DVCS in general and git in particular remain pretty poor at dealing with large binary assets so it’s really not great for e.g. large gamedev. Unity actually purchased PlasticSCM a few years back, and has it as part of their cloud offering.

Google uses its own VCS called Piper which they developed when they outgrew P4.

AOSP with 50M LoC uses a manifest-based, depth=1 tool called repo to glue together a repository of repositories. If you’re thinking “why not just use git submodules?”, it’s because git submodules has a rough UX and would require so much wrangling that a custom tool is more favorable.

Meta uses a custom VCS. They recently released sapling: https://sapling-scm.com/docs/introduction/

In general, the philosophy of distributed VCS being better than centralized is actually quite questionable. I want to know what my coworkers are up to and what they’re working on to avoid merge conflicts. DVCS without constant out-of-VCS synchronization causes more merge hell. Git’s default packfile settings are nightmarish — most checkouts should be depth==1, and they should be dynamic only when that file is accessed locally. Deeper integrations of VCS with build systems and file systems can make things even better. I think there’s still tons of room for innovation in the VCS space. The domain naturally opposes change because people don’t want to break their core workflows.

Every month or two, we get notifications along the FINAL WARNING lines, telling us about some critical system about to be deleted, or some new system that needs to be set up Right Now, because it is a Corporate Standard (that was never rolled out properly), and by golly we have had enough of teams ignoring us, the all powerful Board has got its eyes on you now.

It's a full time job to keep up with the never-ending churn. We could probably just spend all our engineering effort being compliant and never delivering features :)

Company name withheld to preserve my anonymity (100,000+ employees).

TFS was developed in the Studio team. It was designed to work on Microsoft scale and some teams moved over to it (SQL server). It was also available as a fairly decent product (leagues better than SourceSafe).

The ability to lock files centrally might seem outdated by the branching and PR model, but for some organizations the centralized solution works way better because they have built viable business processes around it. Centralized can absolutely smoke distributed in terms of iteration latency if the loop is tight enough and the team is cooperating well.

Subdirectories-as-branches (like bare repo + workspace-per-branch practices w/git) is so much easier for average computer users to grok, too. Very easy to admin too.

No idea what the current "enterprisey" offering is like, though.

For corporate teams, it was a game changer. So much better than any alternative at the time.

We're all so used to git that we've become used to it's terribleness and see every other system as deficient. Training and supporting a bunch of SWE-adjacent users (hw eng, ee, quality, managers, etc) is a really, really good reality check on how horrible the git UX and datamodel is (e.g. obliterating secrets--security, trade, or PII/PHI--that get accidentally checked in is a stop-the-world moment).

For the record, I happily use git, jj, and Gitea all day every day now (and selected them for my current $employer). However, also FTR, I've used SCCS, CVS, SVN, VSS, TFS and MKS SI professionally, each for years at a time.

All of the comments dismissing tools that are significantly better for most use cases other than distributed OSS, but lost the popularity contest, is shortsighted.

Git has a loooong way to go before it's as good in other ways as many of its "competitors". Learning about their benefits is very enlightening.

And, IIRC, p4 now integrates with git, though I've never used it.

Basically instead of everyone creating their own short-lived branches (expensive operation), you would have long-lived branches that a larger group of people would commit to (several product areas). The branch admins job was then to get the work all of these people forward integrated to a branch upwards in the hierarchy. This was attempted a few times per day, but if tests failed you would have to reach out to the responsible people to get those test fixed. Then later, when you get the changes merged upwards, some other changes have also been made to the main integration branch, and now you need to pull these down into your long lived branch - reverse integration - such that your branch is up to date with everyone else in the company.

> Word, Excel, Powerpoint, Sway, Publisher, Access, Project, OneNote, Shared Services (OSI), Shared UX, + everything in the web

Yes, there is a transition, no it isn't really that hard.

Anyone who views lack of git experience as a gap in a CV is selecting for the wrong thing.

In the context of this, when and why would the average dev get time to properly use git - no just get a shallow understanding, but use it at the complexity level needed for an large internal mono-repo ported to it.

I've used git Microsoft for years, but using git with Office client is totally different. I believe it's used differently, with very different expecations in Windows.

(You can get 80% of the way there with symlinks but in my experience they eventually break in git when too many different platforms making commits)

Also at one point I maintained an obscenely advanced test tool at MS, it pounded through millions of test cases across a slew of CPU architectures, intermingling emulators and physical machines that were connected to dev boxes hosting test code over a network controlled USB switch. (See: https://meanderingthoughts.hashnode.dev/how-microsoft-tested... for more details!)

Microsoft had some of the first code coverage tools for C/C++, spun out of a project from Microsoft Research.

Their debuggers are still some of the best in the world. NodeJS debugging in 2025 is dog shit compared to C# debugging in 2005.

Git isn’t even very old, it came out in 2005. Microsoft Office first came out in 1990. Of course Office wasn’t using git.