Linux saga: Girl drops out of school over Ubuntu | Hacker News Reader

Linux saga: Girl drops out of school over Ubuntu

tgdaily.com

14 pointsabossy25 comments

Guys: you're missing the point. The point is not about the original article, the point is that the media leveraged the first reddit/slashdot/whatever to do a follow-on: a spectacle article on Linux users who took the bait and flamed some girl. The fact that it's a girl is absolutely paramount. They caught geeks in a trap, a trap the geeks knew was there and they were happy to jump into.

Geeks need to figure out how to reach out to people and be nice.

Somebody could make a ton of money with a start-up for geeks to help non-geeks. Get a little client app, a splash screen for every distro who will take it: GetGeek@boot. Like people who volunteer to burn free live-cds, but instead, volunteer help. Encourage geeks to volunteer their favorite communication methods through a website, sync it to free time on their calendars, especially phone, then let people call in to a central number and route the calls to available geeks. Collaborate with online communities to give contributing geeks extra karma. 10 points for taking the call, 50 points for positive review by the non-geek. -10,000 points to any geek who calls in and asks for help with a server. :-)

That would be one way to get people to try Linux.

Meanwhile, Dell is probably wondering whether to pull the whole product line. Who knows, maybe the whole thing was a Microsoft stunt.

Maybe it was an Ubuntu stunt to test Dell's loyalty. Who knows.

I do kind of like the GetGeek@Boot idea, though. It would also motivate geeks to increase the accuracy of their schedules.

I agree. This was an opportunity for the true believers to be astonishingly helpful. Perhaps the girl was not ready for college, but that's not the point. The point is that people in a tough situation shouldn't be attacked for things that have nothing to do with them--namely, being PR for the Linux community.

I'm a long-time Linux user and use Ubuntu and only Ubuntu on my home computer. I feel like I need to say this so I don't get slapped for dissing the almighty Linux. The article is right: Ubuntu is not ready to replace Windows for people who don't have the time or the inclination to deal with unlearning Windows. And there are a lot of those. And, that does not in any way downplay how much the rest of us love and appreciate Ubuntu.

"I'm a long-time Linux user and use Ubuntu and only Ubuntu on my home computer. I feel like I need to say this so I don't get slapped for dissing the almighty Linux."

And, seriously, isn't that another facet of the same problem? "No, wait, seriously guys. Please let me say something critical about Linux, I'm one of you. Really!"

this is the main reason libertarianism is seen as the ideology of abrasive misanthropes as well.

GetGeek@Boot is a compelling idea and I like it. However, I'm inclined to feel that this would fail for two reasons:

1. There is simply a cultural boundary between the geeks and the non-geek population that would cause such an idea to fail. I suppose there is a self-selection process involved such that geeks who are willing to help will have a greater natural ability to communicate to non-geeks than those who aren't. Then again, the non-geeks who are most likely to give Linux a try and call in may have higher-than-average technical skill and therefore the gap would not be so large.

2. If the gap were large (given that these are Linux geeks volunteering, above all), how would we incentivize geek retention? This would be a challenging, time-consuming job that demands a high amount of patience--much more than CD burning--for no reward besides karma and the satisfaction of a small handful of potentially new Linux users.

I am fan of Canonical and what they have accomplished with Ubuntu. They could spearhead such an idea, if they haven't already. Obviously, they would be inclined to support Ubuntu, but any Linux distro beyond that is probably too much for non-techies. A real financial backing could make a significant difference.

Not trying to bash your idea; like I said, I like it. Rather, trying to provide some criticism to evolve it. Anybody else?

I am somewhat inclined to disagree. I think a lot of geeks desperately want to be help, to be appreciated by the non-geeks. Why else would they starve themselves in garages trying hack to start-ups that so universally strive to do not just valuable, but helpful, socially-centric things? The odds of money just aren't there.

Your belief is incorrect from my point of view. Sure, we want to help in some occasions- and of course there are bad apples in every bunch irrespective of your profession. But we don't do it because we want the "approval" of non-geeks, that's sad in my opinion, unless they have a sound reason for it. Why we do it is evidently not clear to you- which, simply put, is for the pure passion of it. If we sought to be appreciated(at least the geeks I know), or sought approval, we wouldn't be geeks. -Surely, correct me if you think I'm wrong, but unless you have experience in specifically enjoying what you do and you're not in it for the money and "starving in your garage", then don't respond. Of course there are geeks that do seek approval, - but you said "a lot" which can imply "most" and personally I don't empirically witness that. I believe Paul Graham and/or RandsInRepose has an article on this subject of why we do what we do, but the links are escaping me at the moment.

To me, this is just a poor decision made hastily by a single student who apparently wasn't patient enough to sort out some computer issues. I think there are different options to consider - Asking for help at a computer lab at the college (it was a Technical College, after all), calling Verizon to help out with her Internet connection, even going to illegal route and getting a pirated version of Windows (not that I'm supporting that kind of activity). To me there's something more to this story than what's reported.

I have a feeling we would have seen the same result if her class would have required OpenOffice and her laptop only had MS Office. Of course it would not have been on the news if that were the case.

The most influential people in the linux community left years ago. Either they got jobs, went to specific projects (e.g. apache, gnome), or to different systems (like the mac). Now we seem to be left with an operating system, not a movement. In the place of the old advocates, we have a quiet majority, and a vocal jackass minority. The minority seems to be from two sides:

1. True believers with their heads so far up their asses they can't see the concerns of normal people. They'll attack this girl to defend Linux. (She's a moron! It's her fault! It's because her body contains reproductive hardware!)

2. Insecure jackasses who support their unjustified egos by their ability to type commands in text instead of using a menu, and possibly being able to assemble the 6 parts (and all the new connectors only fit the right way!) required to build your own PC. Her inability to understand Linux made them feel better about themselves, and they attacked her to really drive that point home.

???

The hard drive in my MacBook died, so I can't use Word. I'm dropping out of school. Apple is the reason I'm dropping out of school.

This story just doesn't make sense to me. I agree that Ubuntu can be daunting, maybe there's not enough of a "welcoming committee" for new users, but.. c'mon. Her school didn't have a computer lab? Worst case scenario, she could have BOUGHT another computer.

I doubt even that would have been necessary. A quick call to Dell explaining she hadn't realised her laptop would come with an unfamiliar OS when she tried to save a few dollars and could she please switch to what she is used to would probably have solved it.

In the original story she did call Dell but apparently they convinced her that Ubuntu could do all the things she needed.

Story: http://www.wkowtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=9667184&nav=men...

Sounds like the girl wasn't prepared for the course, I'm sure it could have been dealt with. My wifes college course demanded that every student have a working version of windows XP SP2 or SP3 (vista not allowed), Office 2003 (ironically all her computing books are 2007) and they were trying to get students to pay $2000 for a laptop through them, which the equivalent was about $500 in walmart although no one was forced to buy through them (however they are with their books).

I offered my laptop for my wife to borrow as it's XP SP2, Office 2007 and kicks the requirements ass three-fold. However, she never had to use it because they all get free access to the computer labs, which quite ironically all run Vista even though the requirements were for XP. She could essentially do every bit of work for the class at school, yet they're telling all the students they need a laptop.

If she does need a laptop in her second year then we'll probably get her an Acer Aspire One as they're like $350 from Costco and meet the colleges minimum specs. Plus I wouldn't have a problem using it if she ever needed a more powerful laptop.

I personally dislike Ubuntu, but I think the bigger deal here is that colleges set ridiculous requirements. I mean I don't use Ubuntu, I don't even want to touch the sucker, but even I know that if I was stuck I just need to download OpenOffice! I think a college, who have computer departments (and my wifes has free advice on fixing any computer problem from their computer department, or tax-free repairs) could figure this one out. Even Google Docs saves in Word documents!

On the case of the internet, that's Verizon's fault for not keeping up to date, but even then I installed my first internet connection at like 7 years old. I'm pretty sure I'd be able to dumbly stumble my way into setting up the internet on Ubuntu and I could have it done within a couple of minutes with a guide on how to do it or even the knowledge of where things are in Ubuntu.

Summary: Absolutely everyone in this case was retarded. The girl shouldn't have quit, should have returned the laptop or just dealt with it through OpenOffice and calling verizon to ask how to install it manually. Verizon should create a setup disk for Linux. Dell should be shipping its Ubuntu versions with OpenOffice. Linux users shouldn't freak out and give the media a free article.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but today's Ubuntu systems do come installed with OO, and even if not, it's not like it's difficult to acquire when the user grasps only the fundamentals of the package system(two or three navigating moves, a search entry, and one or two clicks), which is fully available with more applications than one has time in their lifespan to go through let alone actually use. :) But alas, the problem I think with OO, at least in my experience, is that OO is like a one way function- it accepts .doc formats but it's not /completely/ compatible the other way around- going to a purely Win Office(Word) world. I've noticed simple discrepancies after saving in OO and then opening in Word that I didn't particularly care for. However, the most full-circle solution that I found to that was(possibly an advanced topic for this student), is to open up something like VMWare Player or Workstation and there's your glorified Windows Office.

What urks me about these schools is that they're not as informed as they're supposed to be. Making such stringent requirements such as those are just plain moronic. But as you do, I see the cause- they're trying to make the dough through the licenses by demanding their students adhere to these rules.. when in reality they could just say "Windows compatible" - come on.

"Correct me if I'm wrong, but today's Ubuntu systems do come installed with OO"

It's good if it does, but I wouldn't know. If there is a problem between OO and Word, the simplest solution would probably be to save in .rtf as I've never seen a problem between any program saving in .rtf and it being opened in Word. I even worked this way for a long time when I worked as a reviewer, I used a simple blank canvas type of text editor and then I just loaded everything into word, did a quick spell check and sent it off. There was never a single problem.

This happened in my home town and when I saw what the followup story was going to be (it made the TV news), Linux users flaming this woman, I just winced.

This felt sort of like a "teachable moment" for the media that was wasted. I wish it was like that hacker giving away Linux in Neal Stephenson's "In the Beginning Was the Command Line":

> Hacker with bullhorn: "Save your money! Accept one of our free tanks! It is invulnerable, and can drive across rocks and swamps at ninety miles an hour while getting a hundred miles to the gallon!"

I partly dropped out of CS over windows. All the teachers where dead-set on using it.

It depends on the language, really. If you're using anything that truly depends on the command line (or if they want you to learn to compile from the command line) then it's pretty sad without installing Cygwin and rxvt. On the other hand, PLT Scheme has a great GUI environment. I'd imagine lots of JavaSchools also use Eclipse nowadays, too.

Someone who couldn't overcome this hurdle may not be prepared for the rigors of college, let alone an average day...

This is becoming a common so-called 'attack' on this young girl and I disagree. Girl or no girl; if it was a young boy I'd still think the same thing: that the student in question is not prepared for life learning. This is one of the things that higher-education is supposed to instill in students. And I'm not even for the attackers- let's get the student with this type of problem the help they need, there is no need for attacks... but if the student displays this type of behavior and opts for the easiest route, whatever their sex, and whatever operating system they're using, the unfortunate truth is that they are indeed not ready for the rigors of college and therefore, the role of being independent.

Surely she would find a different excuse to quit if her computer was running windows. What is the point? If it is that capricious people may make up excuses for their whims using things you care about, there is nothing new under the sun my friends and I am afraid we are powerless.

I have to take issue with the author's claim that Ubuntu will have to work like Windows to be comprehensible to Windows users. I've handed over computers running Ubuntu to several people who were used to Windows and had never used Linux before. None of them were very tech-savvy. Apart from the occasional "what do I use for...?" type question, none of them had any trouble.

Curiously, I never see anybody claiming that Apple needs to make OS X more like Windows to get people to switch. If it was more like Windows, I think the response of the tech press would be "why bother?".

Actually I've heard that said a lot from new users.

It's not pushed in the press b/c the press is pretty mac-knowledgeable. Design & print are major mac strongholds.

I take it she's never heard of a public library either.

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