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Comment by fluorinerocket | Hacker News Reader

I've concluded that options are a scam after owning them in many companies. It's never amounted to anything

We still get paid obscene salaries fucking around with the bonus of a shot to make even more obscene money.

For all the complaining about options there's little acknowledgement of how little startup work contributes to society relative to the money we rake in from people willing to fund it.

Obscene salary is almost an oxymoron.

Maybe CEOs get that. Most people who get obscene money get it from some kind of investment.

Startup positions vs regular positions often pay much lower. Obscene salaries and startups (which are mostly bootstrapped) don't go hand in hand.

Startup founder who raises gets to play with obscene money.

If you come across obscene money startup jobs share them. Tons of unemployed developers lurking who would take % of obscene.

Startup positions pay significantly better than everything but FAANG and are easier to get than FAANG.

Where would be a good place to look for these type of startups?

"who's hiring" threads here, various discord servers/twitter/bluesky follows, people you know, etc. Same as any other job. The filter is for places that are doing real development work (not cashing in on trends) and have seed money/series A/B/C/etc.

What you should understand is that they are a longshot. Like, worse than 10 to 1. I’ve gotten lucky and made a truckload of money on them, and know many people who have done the same. I’ve also had them be an utter waste of money. It’s very much a gamble and it’s unlikely to pay off. This doesn’t make it a scam.

A lottery ticket is legal but expected value is negative. Same with casino games. Sure it's legal and sometimes people win but in my book it's a scam, even if not technically one.

What I particularly resent is the pretence from companies that a lower salary can be compensated by options. Such BS

No need to resent. Just don't take the job. There are jobs that pay the low salary and no magic beans either!

Options at non publicly traded companies are worth zero. Or should be valued the same as a lottery ticket.

Tell that to the IRS

They play their own game like a boss.

What’s there to tell? Option grants that are not exercised have no tax consequence.

There's a 10y max ttl on ISOs to exercise or lose it. Also if you leave the company it's 90d. You typically can convert ISOs to NSOs but you lose some of the tax advantages of ISO (not a tax/investment advice, etc etc)

Sometimes they are not. I think for post startup companies it is somewhat possible to put a value on ESOP then risk adjust for you losing the job, leaving etc. I have been paid out but think bonus cash for a holiday money not life changing. I kept it in post IPO and got more but then anyone could have done that post IPO.

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