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Comment by paulryanrogers | Hacker News Reader

"ACTUAL discussions" like what?

Because it would seem hate speech has had quite a surge:

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal...

Of course it surges when you re-instate complete free speech. But now you could interact with them, discuss with them, maybe sway them another way. Or you just ignore them and scroll away, or even block them, so the algorithm knows you don't want that content.

They're already being pulled down by the alg. It's just allowed now, and why shouldn't it be? I think it's better for humanity overall if these people are not pushed into a small echo-chamber but instead can speak freely and openly.

We should go back to sticks & stones. Let hate flow off you and instead look for love, which is also still there.

> Of course it surges when you re-instate complete free speech.

what? Elon routinely complies with random countries asking him to ban users, and routinely bans people he personally doesn't like. he even banned someone who was just reposting public flight data!

what on earth does "complete free speech" mean to you??!

Routinely? I doubt that. Of course I don't agree with everything he does, but I agree with his vision.

His vision seems to be "freedom for me, not for thee"

Nice. Good discussion.

First thing that pops up on google:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2024/09/25/elon-mu...

Anyone still swayed by his vision is painfully naive

And when all the hate speech proponents flood the platform with bots? What happens when pushing down is not enough because there is too much? What happens when there are so many new accounts posting hate speech you can’t block them either. Free speech and word detection algorithms are not good moderation they are lazy moderation that refuses to address the problem most people have with Twitter.

Twitter is not the US and does not guarantee free speech. To insist that it must because it’s a US company is entirely missing the point. Banning people is essentially ignoring people. Which is what the text of “sticks and stones” is instructing.

I’ve never mentioned “because it’s a US company” so I’ll ignore that part of the message.

Sticks & stones is a general thing that’s missing in a lot of people nowadays. Trying to protect everyone from bad words will only make them react more when they inevitably will encounter said bad words.

As for the rest of the “what if”s, I guess we’ll see what happens when it happens. As of right now, my For You page is filled with science, discussions, tech, friends, well-known people having normal discussions with “plebs”, etc.

If you don’t find value in the platform, simply don’t use it. Use Bluesky if you want.

As much as I hoped Blue Sky might succeed where Mastodon didn't, it's by far the platform where I've gotten the most unwanted dickpics and thirst traps, and the general vibe feels so shallow and performative.

The signal to noise ratio is so low even when curating feeds, it feels pointless to post anything meaningful anymore, it just gets drowned in the noise and bots.

Oh wow, didn’t know that. I never left X but saw a lot of talk about BS when the transition happened. I just assumed it was a clone of Twitter with mostly the people who left.

That sucks tho. I’m not against other places existing if it makes people feel better.

The purpose of Bluesky isn’t to make people feel better it’s to stave people off from being indebted to an advertising heavy society. Software like Twitter that’s designed to keep you engaged and defending it regardless how harmful it’s been in the last decade is the reason Bluesky exists.

Correct I mentioned it. If Twitter wasn’t a US company we’d never be having a conversation about freedom of speech so be ignorant about that all you want. However it’s silly you choose that reasoning.

Isn’t your suggestion to remember the words of “sticks and stones” the same as you advocating for how everyone should protect themselves from bad words?

I don’t use either platform because I find short form writing utterly valueless for anything than marketing purposes. You may say “but I read a lot of good discussions on there”. Great for you but the discussions are still mostly short form rhetoric with little value other than “talking out loud”. The other half of discussions is split between jobless comedians and hate-speech-as-freedom-of-speech advocates. I will never get my science, news, etc from a quote box. There’s a reason I deleted my account 10 years ago.

FYI long-form is possible since a few years, and actively used by a lot of people.

That’s a pretty damning study, post-purchase hate speech is nearly half the Twitter content. Sounds like hate speech is the “actual discussions”.

That seems like a weird take. If 80% of the internet is spam (which it very well could be), is spam the internet?

I guess censorship is a popular thing now on HN. Never thought I would see all you people advocating FOR censorship. I’m happy Elon seems unmoving in his stance on this. We need to progress.

The internet isn’t Twitter, people aren’t advocating for censoring the internet, they’re advocating for censoring a person on a digital service platform. If you don’t think you’d see people advocating for censorship on HackerNews then you don’t understand what HN platform is, because bans, downvotes, flagging, etc are all types of censorship.

If you don’t like the platform censoring you, go somewhere else or do what Elon did and buy the platform and change the rules for yourself.

I believe it’s called a “coherent speech product,” not censorship.

I loathe the poorly educated.

A lot of spam is censored by laws like CAN-SPAM act and fraud laws. Private mail services also censor spam with their own terms of service, with rules like DMARC.

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