Connecticut legislature overhauls towing laws to reduce 'predatory towing' | Hacker News Reader

Connecticut legislature overhauls towing laws to reduce 'predatory towing'

propublica.org

63 pointsnoleary35 comments

Kansas City, MO recently did the same thing[0], accompanied by the indictment of a tow operator in two different counties for falsifying state forms to make it appear as if the vehicles they had wrongfully towed had been towed according to the law, then abandoned by the owners, allowing for the operator to claim them.[1]

While these are nice developments, arguably, it's worse than bank robbery; in much of the country (Kansas City in particular), if you're without a car, you're screwed. No doctor appointments, no school, no grocery shopping, no social life, no job. Treat it as such. If you take someone's car without permission, you should face a significant fraction of a decade in prison, per vehicle.

[0] https://www.kmbc.com/article/kansas-city-ordinance-cracks-do...

[1] https://www.kmbc.com/article/kansas-city-towing-company-unau...

Towing cars is the modern equivalent of taking horses and boots.

Got curious about the "century old statute" and looked it up. Original text [1]

> Section 1. Whenever any motor-vehicle is found abandoned upon any public highway… and said vehicle is not of a value exceeding one hundred dollars… said officer may cause such motor-vehicle to be removed

> Section 2. If such motor-vehicle is not reclaimed within fifteen days after such removal, said officer shall sell the same at public auction…

[1] https://books.google.com/books?id=gktNAQAAMAAJ&hl=en

Do they adjust for inflation? I have a hard time getting a tire for $100 now, never mind a whole car.

Apparently the new number is $1500. But it's at the tow driver's discretion so they can estimate the value at $1,499.

I’m not sure this makes a huge difference if the goal is to get obvious pieces of junk off the highway? Does a $1600 car really matter that much more than even a $1500 car?

I think the point is that somebody can look at a brand new mint condition bugatti and say "that looks like it's worth less than $1500 to me" and then take it. It's not good to rely on people to be honest when it is in their financial best interest not to be.

But the law doesn’t allow for that, obviously. It’s a nonsensical scenario. Maybe you could argue that a somewhat functional car might be taken on occasion, but it’s… still abandoned…

Like, nobody is parking a useful vehicle on the side of the highway and abandoning it. This isn’t a scenario for abuse.

While it's a particularly brazen scenario meant to illustrate the concept, the point is the law does allow that. This doesn't simply apply to cars left on the side of the road, this is any car that's been towed for any reason. A car worth a heck of a lot more than $1500 can have an expired parking permit and no one available to pick it up (or even recognize it has been towed) within 15 days. You go on vacation or you're in the hospital and when you get back home you don't have a car anymore because you were parked only 13 feet away from a fire hydrant. And particularly for low income individuals, coming up with the money to pay the fine to get your vehicle out of impound within 15 days may be a legitimate financial burden, especially if without your vehicle you can no longer commute to work, or you lost your job for whatever reason led to the vehicle being impounded. It's an obvious scenario for abuse.

For reference, I have a used car from 1998. Kind of a junker, but has a fun v6 in it (manual). But the point is, my city values it at $1500 and hasn't let that value go any lower for city vehicle tax purposes.

So I'd imagine most cars ever if old junk piles are still worth $1500 to the state.

"Connecticut’s law allows tow companies to begin the process to sell vehicles after just 15 days."

New law updates it to 30 days, except for vehicles worth under $1500 which is still 15 days, which may be an interesting opportunity to see how towers do time value of money decisions on so many $1499 cars.

The law should just require the cops move the offending car to a different location and issue a fine. There shouldn't any private towing and impound at all.

> law should just require the cops move the offending car to a different location and issue a fine

Who pays for all that parking? Security? Customer service?

Usually the people who want their cars back end up paying it.

Presumably the fine should cover it. The customer service costs are pretty constant regardless of impound duration, and you locate the impound in a place where a big empty lot with a fence is not expensive. If space needs to be made, the decision of when a car can be removed should be made by someone with no financial stake in the outcome.

There is vast amounts of free parking in America. A small amount extra for storing towed vehicles doesn't seem like that big of a deal.

Whatever happened to the trope that your car got towed to "the police impound"? Tow it back to the police station lot.

> Tow it back to the police station lot

What does this solve?

As someone who isn’t constantly getting his car towed, I’d insist this be done at least revenue neutrally. And civil asset forfeiture is way harder to fight than wrongful sale off a private lot.

Related context: How a Connecticut DMV Employee Made Thousands by Selling Towed Cars

https://www.propublica.org/article/connecticut-dmv-employee-...

> After weeks of negotiations, lawmakers said they came to a compromise with the towing industry.

Maybe just phrasing, but I hate the idea that we have to compromise our laws with private companies that only have to maximize shareholder value. If a law that treats the public fairly also puts tow companies out of business, so be it.

Do you seriously think a towing company is a publicly traded company?

Towing companies (and some apartment complexes) are essentially just organized crime. An apartment complex I lived in instituted a convoluted parking system utilizing colored mirror hang tags. Each unit received one exclusive parking spot (required to display a red tag only), and the remaining parking was first come first serve (but must display a yellow tag). There was never enough free parking, and tenants routinely parked overnight in fire lanes. My partner and I worked opposite shifts, so we usually only needed our designated spot, but sometimes were unable to swap tags due to schedules. Tow companies would roam the complex at night (let in through the gate by security), and haul off any vehicle without a red tag in designated spots, while ignoring vehicles in fire lanes and other no parking zones. The first time it happened, I thought my car had been stolen (why would I even think it was towed? I didn’t call to have someone removed from my own parking spot). I only found out after contacting apartment management for surveillance video. After the second time this happened (I’m a slow learner), I trudged over to the office, walking past several cars parked in the fire lane that had been there overnight. The manager stuck to their guns, stating that rules were rules, and I had broken them. I helpfully pointed out the vehicles still in the fire lane just outside the door, and asked if I should just leave my designated spot unoccupied and take up a free space (thereby using up two spaces) just to “follow the rules.” They had the gall to say it wasn’t fair to tow the fire lane violators, since there wasn’t enough parking for everyone. So it made more sense for them to endanger tenants lives. The ludicrousness of the situation made me suspicious that the apartment employees were getting kickbacks from the towing companies. It was the only scenario that made sense, other than mass idiocy.

>[It] does all of this without undercutting the essential work that ethical and professional tow operators do each and every day for us

Very clever words directed at tow operators here. If you aren't doing anything unethical, you should have no objections, right?

Nothing compared to the old Chicago Lincoln Park Pirates...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lincoln_Towing_Service

How come towing vehicles is so common in the US, but not so much in the UK? I've literally never heard of anyone getting their vehicle towed away over here, but it sounds like in US you can get it towed for something as minor as not paying for parking(which just results in getting a fine here).

Genuienly curious.

It's common for people to ignore parking fines until they pile up. A city might "boot" the car to disable it, or they can tow it; either way extorting the owner to pay. Also, private parking areas contract with tow companies which incentivizes the tow companies to patrol proactively looking for violators and tow anyone without a permit or whatever. So a market was created.

Moderately recently (maybe ten years ago?) the police got the power to seize and destroy abandoned vehicles. This was intended to address the occasional obvious wreck you see at the roadside. Flat tyres, broken windows, full of rubbish, etc.

But there have been a few cases of people going on holiday for a fortnight and returning to find that their old but taxed and insured car has been taken. And they have no legal redress!

This does seem to be very rare though.

Is that in the UK or US? Sorry just isn't clear from the post.

Sorry, England.

How do you handle it in the UK if you arrive home and find that someone has parked in your private driveway without permission which prevents you from parking your car on your property?

I don't know, I've never heard of that happening to anyone.

But a quick google says if that were to happen to you it's best to just leave it and wait for the owner to come back, it's not illegal(it's only a civil offence so you'd need to sue the person who did it), if you get it towed you have to pay for the tow and you'd be responsible for any damages that happen to the car in that time.

Again, that sounds purely theoretical, I can't imagine it's actually common.

Is that a common issue in the US?

I've seen it fairly often at apartments in the US that have assigned parking spaces.

Depends on the city for how harshly it's enforced on public roads, but you absolutely can be towed off private property pretty much anywhere.

Check out GToger (sp?) on YouTube. IT guy who was working in Dallas (hasn't posted in a long while, maybe changed jobs?) in an area heavy with nightlife. Tons of videos from surveillance cameras of people getting towed for parking in very clearly marked "NO PARKING" spots.

Many American states have laws that allow tow companies to rob people.

Tow companies literally just go into parking lot of apartment complexes they have a contract with and start removing cars with expired or non visible parking stickers. Nobody called them, the car is not a problem. They then only take cash, are not available on weekends, charge you some crazy rate like 150/day, won’t even let you into the car to get your personal items, then after 15 days, they sell your car. It’s functionally just stealing from the poor

They particularly like doing it on days with bad weather too. And they are so rude and aggressive and antagonistic. I’m convinced any time a tow company is short on cash, they just send their people out there to hunt for cars to tow

And since it’s mostly poor minorities that bear the brunt of these abuses, many people are okay with it

In the US if you park on the street and don't pay, or overstay the time you paid for, you're generally only going to get a ticket/fine. You might get towed if you're blocking a fire hydrant or parked in a fire lane or blocking a bus stop or traffic lane or something like that.

You have to be very careful on private property particularly apartment residences, many have contracts with towing companies to remove unauthorized vehicles. You need to be sure you're in a designated "guest parking" area or that there is no issue with parking in an available space. Same for retail and restaurants especially those that are close to some other attraction. They want the parking for their customers and if they figure out that you've parked there and walked away they will have your car towed. They are supposed to post signs if there is a tow policy but they aren't always very visible so you have to look around or talk to the property manager.

Probably $100-$200 to get it back, usually cash only. I'd like to see an audit of their books. Depending on the state or local laws they might not be able to actually keep your car if you just demand it back. It's your property and they have no claim on it. They would need to get a court order to force you to pay. They will not tell you this and will act quite agressive if you challenge them, but if you know your rights you might be able to say "well I'll call the sheriff and we'll see what they say about it."

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