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Comment by alyandon | Hacker News Reader

This really just blows my mind that Microsoft believes people are going to throw their perfectly functional laptops/desktops into the trash. All Microsoft has to do to keep people on Windows and in the Microsoft ecosystem would be to offer a supported version of Windows 11 without the CPU and TPM 2.0 requirements.

For me, every one of the older machines in my household (laptops and desktops) that are currently on Windows 10 that cannot run Windows 11 in a fully supported manner will be migrated to a KDE based Linux distro.

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Microsoft is selling support for those perfectly functional laptops/desktops past Windows 10's 10 year support window: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/whats-new/extended...

ESU costs $30 for one year, $60 for two years. That's a lot cheaper than a new laptop.

This is, in fact, the point. They do not want the support burden and negative security posture of supporting billions of computers that cannot have a locked bootloader.

I get that security is part of the posturing - I just think it is tone deaf to the reality that not everyone is going to be willing to spend $500-$2000 USD just to be able to "run" Windows 11.

I have friends and family that will continue to run EOL Windows 10 which is worse unless I convince them to migrate to Linux.

The legally enforced monopoly on support is to blame for this, not well-functioning hardware.

Negative security?

> Negative security?

If you employ snake oil like Crowdstrike or "secure boot" (when the key stays on MS servers).

Linux has no problem supporting pretty much every PC hardware ever made, any filesystem, etc. So while it might reduce their costs, they are hedging customers every generation

Linux Foundation doesn’t “support” anything in the sense met above. They do not provide antivirus updates, or a help line, or consultation services. They are not responsible in any way if every device running linux gets hacked. It’s simply not their problem — but it is Microsoft’s.

Tbf it was the same story when Windows XP went EoL and by now almost all of those have been replaced. So what's most likely is that Windows 10 will stick around for some time until it silently fades away, just like XP did, regardless of CPU/TPM shenanigans.

As somebody that was using Windows XP up to its EoL, I am fairly certain I was in the minority (at least amongst home users.) I don't think anybody I knew was using XP by the time its end came. The only reason I was still on it at the time was a complete lack of income which meant using very old hand-me-down hardware.

The situation with Windows 10 feels quite different, because most people I know that use Windows are on Windows 10 currently.

Nah it was the same when Windows XP went EoL, people were also up in arms having to replace computers that worked perfectly fine for them.

I was working at a web design company a little after windows XP went EoL. One site had a member on thier board who kept raising a stink because the redesigned site didn't work right on their computer. Found out that they were using IE6 or whatever on XP. Our estimate for the fix was $600, which was like an additional 2-3% on top of the original estimate so it was approved. The $600 was used to buy a new laptop for that board member with Windows7 and whatever the latest IE was installed.

Average computer literacy of computer users is at an all time low. If trillion dollar company says it's time to consume more product, they must know something I don't.

You can install Win 11, but not in-place. Need to use boot media. This is an obstacle for many people, but not someone who would I stall Linux. (From boot media)

It's about having a fully supported Windows 11 install vs bypassing the CPU and TPM check the installer does.

Is there a practical difference? I.e, what does fully supported mean? For context, I had assumed an older laptop was unable to upgrade until I tried it, then did some research. Wondering if I missed something subtle.

It means that Microsoft won't suddenly disable your Windows 11 install's ability to update. Microsoft has already, on at least one occasion, disabled further updates for computers that don't meet their specified requirements in regards to processor and TPM.

A lot of the users of 10 we're talking about wouldn't know how to get Windows 11 working again after updates were stripped again.

If there is no tpm then it’s not secure I assume is what is meant by not “fully supported.” You can do it, but it’s on you if you get bootkitty.

You can in place. Even the 11 iot enterprise that officially doesn't have the artificial hardware blocks.

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