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Comment by skyyler | Hacker News Reader

"HR risk if they use the wrong pronoun"

I don't mean to pick on you personally, but this sort of thing gets on my nerves and I have to take a moment to say something here.

I don't love how some people think I'm some sort of implicit threat or ticking time bomb because of stories they've heard or read about people like me. Like most people in the office, I just want to be able to do my work. I'm not trying to cause problems for people. The thought that me living my life makes some people feel like they have to walk on eggshells is awful. Luckily most people don't see me as some kind of threat like this, but it's obvious when people do.

I can't speak for everyone, but for me personally, going to HR for _anything_ is terrifying. Going to HR to complain about a valid grievance is scary. Going to HR over a simple mistake that a well-meaning person made feels like it would explode my career. It's hard enough to get a job as an openly transgender person.

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Once you / someone in your network gets HR’d over something new, you will take steps to prevent a repeat event.

> Once you / someone in your network gets HR’d over something new

I’ve met zero people who faced actual consequences for messing up a pronoun. Same for people who go thermonuclear over their preferred pronoun. Zero. Both seem to be more a feature of social media than reality.

I've met zero people who use pronouns. Definitely just a feature of social media reality and, based on job applications, HR people finding new ways to keep their jobs.

I do know people who have been laid off "at will" after getting reported to HR because they had the wrong political opinion.

> I've met zero people who use pronouns.

Unless any of your peers are cartoon cavemen who always use people's names in place of words like "I" or "him" or "us," I'm going to wager that 100% of the people you know do actually use pronouns.

everyone has pronouns, just that they align with their outward gender / gender identity.

btw i'm a sr engineering manager at a faang and my directory page has they/them pronouns on it. i don't care if people mess them up, and i don't correct people, but it's nice if they make an effort. the most nonbinary thing i do is paint my nails, but everything else about me is masc.

and i've worked in rural parts of america and have had the exact opposite: a conservative opinion including "hey this republican is a really great candidate, now go vote in the next election!" from companies on the s&p500.

> i've worked in rural parts of america and have had the exact opposite: a conservative opinion including "hey this republican is a really great candidate, now go vote in the next election!" from companies on the s&p500.

Yup. It's difficult to balance the freedom of assembly, on one hand, and the freedom of political speech, on the other hand.

Given political opinions are mutable it seems reasonable to hold people accountable for ones they express at the workplace. I'm less comfortable about punishing people at work for opinions expressed outside of it. But it's also naive to pretend customers, vendors and the public won't judge you based on the public opinions of your employees.

Freedom of expression, but only for those with Fuck You money?

> Freedom of expression, but only for those with Fuck You money?

Not really. Economic independence (a) obviously confers freedom and (b) does not require fuck-you money. It usually comes at a cost, namely, material comforts. But this has always been a civic balance even the wealthiest have to make. (For example, the billionaires kowtowing to Trump for fear of having fewer billions.)

It takes a lot of maturity to not care what someone calls you (as long as they don't mean disrespect, and sometimes even if they do). Irrespective of trait, most people are not so thick skinned. That is why they go to HR over political disagreements. You may have seen it happen in rural parts. I've seen it happen in urban ones.

> I've met zero people who use pronouns

So what the hell are you doing in this thread?

I know LGBT people personally and professionally and was completely unaware of Pronouns until the first season of Billions. It made me think maybe it was an East Coast thing finally migrating West, but still, to this date, I don't know anyone who introduces themselves or specifies their pronouns. I haven't gone out of my way to avoid or encounter them.

You sound ridiculous because pronouns are just a normal part of speech which you have already demonstrated you use fluently. What you actually mean is that you hadn't encountered people specifying their preferred pronouns explicitly before. It's a thing you're most likely to encounter if you meet a trans/NB person where it's not entirely obvious from their presentation (especially online where you otherwise have a handle and a profile pic, both of which may be quite ambiguous. Women in tech are likely to do this even if not trans because of the strong tendency to assume male by default), or in spaces/from people who are trying to be inclusive of such (though, frankly, it's usually best dealt with a section in a bio or a badge. Even in the most queer spaces I've been in I don't think I've ever heard some say out loud "Hi, I'm X, pronouns foo/bar". Usually it's pretty obvious what they're going for, and if not, they'll have a badge or perhaps politely correct you if you assume wrong).

Sry but that pedantic correction is what sounds ridiculous.

You even understood him since you said “what u actually mean”

It’s exactly this kind of moral preachery nonsense that puts people off, more than actual pronouns imo

I stated it because it's entirely possible they didn't actually understand this, and that pronouns were entirely "some trans thing". Words do have meanings and it causes problems when they're used imprecisely like this. You can see other reactions that show less helpful responses to this confusion, because to many people the statement does just sound ridiculous. The intended meaning is a lot more understandable, and I'm quite sympathetic to it. My message is not meant be some dunk or preach about moral superiority, just an explaination for why they're getting the reaction that they are (which could, on reflection, be less blunt, sorry)

So this issue clearly doesn’t affect your life in any real tangible way, and yet for some reason it’s so triggering to you that you felt compelled to jump in on a thread about it, and I’d sure wager this isn’t the first time. Again, Why Are You Here? What makes this such a hot-button topic for you that, despite it having no actual affect on you at all, the mere act of someone announcing their pronouns in an online forum is sufficient to compel this kind of reaction from you?

Genuine question, have you been HR'd over something new? Could you share your experiences?

Me? No. I have worked in many companies and seen my fair share of train wrecks.

I practice an abundance of caution in an office setting. I wish I didn't have to but the financial risk, for me, is far too great to have any kind of a political opinion.

I don't drink at company events. I don't ask personal questions. I don't have a political or personal opinion. I don't invite anyone at the office to personal events. God bless noise cancelling headphones!

It is very stifling and I don't wish it on anyone.

>I have worked in many companies and seen my fair share of train wrecks.

I'd love to hear some stories from you, if you're willing to share. I would like to understand why there's a segment of the population that is so afraid of people like me.

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