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Comment by Avalaxy | Hacker News Reader

I pretty much agree. Especially for power users it sucks. Here are some strange points:

- I can't run multiple instances of visual studio...

- IE in Metro doesn't share cookies/settings with IE in desktop mode...

- Closing apps is awkward... Drag them downwards (WTF) or use ALT+F4 (no, leaving the open in the background is not an option, it will clutter my alt+tab menu).

- Start menu gone, wtf? Yes I do use it, and yes I do still click on it with my mouse to find certain things. The new search is worse... If I want 'windows update' I first have to click where I want to search for 'windows update' (and if I can't remember the name of what I'm looking for, this doesn't even work).

- I want to leave windows partially open (not fullscreen) so I can see other things on my screen (download progress, file copy progress, etc.). Again: not possible in metro.

- I can't get rid of the mandatory password/pin.

These are just a few of the annoyances I encountered.

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> - Start menu gone, wtf? Yes I do use it, and yes I do still click on it with my mouse to find certain things. The new search is worse... If I want 'windows update' I first have to click where I want to search for 'windows update' (and if I can't remember the name of what I'm looking for, this doesn't even work).

How do you find anything in a windows start menu? Every application has its own naming scheme and complete control over where it puts itself in there. I consider it one of the worst long standing user experiences that still seems to be promoted/accepted for some unknown reason.

In Win7? Tap the Windows key and type the name of the program. At least for a power user, this is quite nice. It's arguably on par with Spotlight as an application launcher, with similar trade-offs (e.g. multiple matches--- which is the right one?).

I'm not a huge fan of Windows, but this is one thing that Win7 (or Vista?) substantially improved over XP.

Did you read the quote I replied to? Underscored for clarity:

> - Start menu gone, wtf? _____Yes I do use it, and yes I do still click on it with my mouse to find certain things_____.

I totally agree with this. Each new app that I install prompts a new hunt through the Programs part of the Start menu for where the app might have stashed its icons -- would they be in a new folder with the same name as the app? In a folder with the name of the publisher? In the random dump of icons at the top that don't bother to create a folder for themselves? This leads to typing in the name of the app in the search box and letting Windows do this hunting for me.

Microsoft's UX research found this as well. People prefer pinning apps Windows 7 to the taskbar over the Start menu[1].

The "hit Windows key and type name of app" scenario is preserved quite nicely with the Start screen.

1. http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2011/10/03/evolving-the-s...

Doesn't the new folder get highlighted the first time you check the start menu after installing a program? I don't find it difficult. Though the Win8 method (the new apps are just put to the far right of the start screen, so I hit winkey -> End) works fine too.

I think what he's actually complaining about there is the search - in Win7 results from apps, settings, files, etc. get combined by default, in Win8 you have to click on the individual category (or remember the keyboard shortcut to it).

On Windows 7 and previous versions, I reorganize the start menu according to my scheme: I have folders named "Dev", "Internet", "Office", etc. and once an application is installed I just move its icon in the appropriate folder.

Also, I use ClassicShell http://classicshell.sourceforge.net/ to have a start menu with the Windows 2K look and I hide the search box, which I have no need of with my organization.

Pro tips to alleviate some of the gripes I see here:

Shift-click a pinned icon to start a new instance.

Use the Windows key on your keyboard. Start typing to find an app.

Press the Windows key again to toggle back to whatever was just open.

Winkey+F to find files instead of apps.

Winkey+D for desktop, always.

Winkey+L to login/lock screen, where you can shut down.

Get rid of the mandatory password/pin by not signing in to your Windows Live account. Better yet, never sign into it in the first place.

Don't use Metro IE, Mail or Messages if you want to use desktop apps for those. If you want to use mostly desktop, don't try to mix in Metro apps.

You can run multiple versions of VS (2012...I haven't checked others). If you pin it to the start menu and right-click and open a new instance it will open a new instance. Agree that this is annoying. It seems like the metro start/find screen takes the focus back to an existing instance by default, rather than launching a new instance. For a user with a fairly simple mental model of how things work this is probably a good thing, but for more advanced users it is a problem.

From some of the other comments it looks like shift+click on the metro start screen works to open a new instance (which is the same as the task bar in Win7,8)

Disregard my questions. I just skimmed the section on windows management and it is as I feared. I don't really understand the Metro "intention(?)" for pcs(and I actually use and like Gnome 3 as my daily driver).

I haven't used Windows 8 yet so pardon my possible silly questions.

What's the experience of a Metro app on a large screen monitor...always fullscreen? The app is either running or not? Multiple Metro apps displayed/running simultaneously? Is Metro on by default for "pcs?"

Yes. Yes. Sort of. Yes, and you can't turn it off.

You can run 2 metro apps at a time. 1 in fullscreen with the other "docked" in a limited mode to the side.

Interesting. So doesn't sound possible to divide the screen such as for an editor/Word on one half and to read a PDF or use a browser on the other half?

Not with Metro apps, on the desktop everything works the same though.

I already dread the number of times I anticipate seeing users with 24"/30" monitors running some Metrofied equivalent of Notepad or Calculator.

In Windows 8, Notepad and Calculator are still desktop apps only.

Yes, metro apps are fullscreen. No menu bar or anything like that. So if you have some background tasks you won't be able to see if they're finished...

And apps can be suspended or closed. Suspended is something like 'sleep mode'. They're still in your alt-tab menu (you can directly launch them).

And regarding the last question: yes: metro is the default. When you boot up Windows you will see metro. And as far as I know there is no longer the option to remove it. Every time you need something you will return back to the metro start screen.

Apps with background tasks are generally supposed to pop up a notification when they're done (the APIs for the new notification popups are available for use by desktop apps too btw, although admittedly they probably won't be widely implemented for a while if ever).

Running multiple instances of VS (or any other desktop app) should work the same as before (shift-click on taskbar), not sure what was happening there.

Shift click? Didn't try that yet. I always just click the VS shortcut again, and voilà: a new instance is launched.

Wait, are you opening it from the Start screen? That switches by default instead of opening a new instance, but for desktop apps there's an app command (right click) to open a new window. I'd still recommend shift-click from the taskbar though (same as in Win7).

I think this may be an issue that will be popping up a lot, people thinking that everything has to be started from the start screen when everything works just as it always has from the desktop (minus a start menu, which is actually the start screen).

I think the issue here is more that he probably didn't know how to start a new instance from the taskbar in Win7 - which is understandable as it's not exactly obvious - and was used to doing it from the start menu. However, you could make a case that switching to an existing instance is the more mainstream expected behavior and starting a new instance is a bit more advanced, so it's ok for it to be tucked away a bit more (but convenient enough once you know how).

also

- right click on the running instance in the task bar and select Visual Studio

- middle click on the already running instance in the task bar

same as with Windows 7

Once the app is already running and visible in the taskbar, you can right-click the icon in the taskbar, and click the link with the same name as the app (e.g. for Google Chrome, the link I'm talking about says "Google Chrome"). This will open a new instance of the app.

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