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Comment by bonki | Hacker News Reader

I like crotcheting (tried it again for the first time since childhood during Covid). My main problem is that, unless you have already mastered it and can do it in your sleep, I have to fully concentrate on it to not fuck things up, which means I can't do something else at the same time, e.g. listen to an audiobook. And because I'm so slow it takes too much time for me to not think that it's a waste of time because I could have done something more meaningful instead. Objectively, I know it is wrong to think so because the whole point of it is to get away from other stuff and let your brain rest for a while, but it just doesn't work for me and creates extra stress, sadly.

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> And because I'm so slow it takes too much time for me to not think that it's a waste of time because I could have done something more meaningful instead.

I struggle with this too, especially because knitting is so slow and I'm in the unusual but fortunate position of having my other hobby (writing a couple of books) clearly having had much more impact.

There's a part of my brain when I knit that's like, "You know if you spent this hour working on another book, it would leave a bigger mark in the world."

But I also know that part of that impulse is unhealthy. I wrote those books for a lot reasons, many of which were good. But some of that drive did come from a sense that I'm not enough just being me and I need to be making something of value for as many people as possible to consider myself worthy.

I'm trying to grow out of that mindset and accept myself just as I am. So I consider time spent knitting as sort of exposure therapy for getting used to the idea that I deserve to take time for my selfish joys.

If I may ask, do you suffer from anxiety and depression?

I do. As part of that whole package, I find it exceedingly difficult to focus on more than one thing at a time. As much as I would love to sit and code a bit while watching tv or listening to an audio book, I simply cannot do it. I've tried many times and find it impossible to focus on my project while my brain is more interested in the easy attention economy of the television.

Conversely, my wife is very talented in the fiber arts. She seems to be able to sew, crochet and knit while watching tv without any effort at all, paying attention to both whatever show we have on and what she's doing. Granted, she's been at it for well over a decade so there's some learned adaptation there, but as far back as I can remember she has never had the same problem I do. She also does not suffer from anxiety and depression on the level that I do.

I've been wondering if there's a correlation for awhile now. Interesting that this popped up on HN and pulled me out of lurk mode.

Has nothing to do with anxiety or depression

Multitasking is just a "personality trait".. and predominantly women are more able to multitask than men. You should simply ask around and see the correlations. Some of the happiest people I know can't multitask at all

I don't want this to sound derogatory but my experience is that simpler minds are generally happier in life, and I'd guess that this often (not always) comes with an inability to multitask, so I believe you are right. I had a friend in school (great dude, very grounded and happy person) who couldn't eat ice cream and walk at the same time (I swear I'm not making this up).

I've found the exact opposite. More intelligent people can't multitask. But they generally can think about things more deeply. People that can multitask literally are constantly thinking about several things at the same time.

I don't find these to be mutually exclusive concepts.

I do, but I'm not convinced there is correlation. In front of the computer I can easily multitask and I can just as easily sit for 10 hours straight and code with focus. Outside the digital realm I find it harder to multitask - if I talk to someone on the phone and try to do something at the same time I immediately lose focus on the conversation, I drift away and no longer know what the other person is talking about. I've been wondering if the difference is that there is external input which I can't anticipate - if I do multiple things on the the computer by myself all state exists in my head and it's just a matter of random read access. On the other hand, I also find it hard to cook and go back to the computer for "just one second", every other time I immediately forget that there is food on the stove. I'd say that my attention span has suffered since Covid and I find it generally harder to keep focus, for example when watching TV, but if the focus is there I can still hold it for a very long time, e.g. when programming.

I sort of wonder if it is just a matter of multitasking imposing a cost, maybe one that you can afford in the cases where you are really good at the thing?

Like I’m pretty good at programming, bad at writing, and ok at following the plot of a TV show (that’s hardly a skill I’m proud of, haha). But, I can code fine with a TV on in the background (I will be decent at programming and forget the plot of the TV show/miss plot beats). Or I can slow my writing even further, to an absolute crawl, while simultaneously missing TV plot points. Multitasking!

I've never suffered from anxiety nor depression, and yet can't focus on more than one thing at a time. I can't imagine coding while watching tv or listening to an audio book. Nor would I want to!

If I tried doing two things at once, it'd be painful and also I wouldn't be doing either properly. I believe the "multitaskers" aren't that much better, they just learned to context-switch quickly. I'm not the least envious.

"To do two things at once is to do neither"

~Attributed to Confucius, but I first heard it from fortune cookies :^)

I also don't multitask well, but I think it's a little more complex than just not doing more than one thing at a time. Different tasks seem to occupy different brain regions, and it's really that I can't allocate one region to multiple things.

I can listen to music while I program, but it can't be anything with lyrics because programming requires too much of my language center.

Knitting doesn't touch my language center, so I can listen to music with lyrics or an audiobook. But it's too visual for me to watch anything else while I do it.

> As much as I would love to sit and code a bit while watching tv or listening to an audio book, I simply cannot do it

> She seems to be able to sew, crochet and knit while watching tv without any effort at all, paying attention to both whatever show we have on and what she's doing

Those combinations don't seem at all comparable.

Consider, though, one of the unique aspects of crochet or knitting -- you can fuck things up and it's not a big deal. Unlike woodworking or sewing, where once something is cut it cannot be uncut, with these crafts if you zone out while watching Wheel of Fortune and do a few rows wrong, you can always just ... undo it and try again. Nothing is lost but your time, and if you are doing it to relax while watching TV, you haven't really lost anything at all.

This was probably my issue as well. I grew up seeing my grandma crochet. She’d do it while watching TV (though I’m not sure if she was actually watching or just in proximity to others watching), and she was quick. I have a couple afghans she made. She probably made a couple dozen.

The learning curve was higher than I expected, especially without someone to be there showing me stuff. I just tried watching some YouTube videos. I got frustrated and quit rather quickly.

I’ve heard knitting is easier, but I like the idea of crochet better.

My mom also knits while watching TV, and she is super fast. I think one secret ingredient is that she doesn't care about making mistakes. Tinier mistakes she just ignores (even if they are visible in the end [I don't like that, so that's something I try to avoid, which adds pressure and slows me down]) and she doesn't mind backtracking and re-doing several rows if she really fucks up.

My grandma seemingly didn’t ignore or tolerate mistakes. That’s why she ended up stopping. People tried to get her to crochet or knit toward the end of her life and if she made a mistake, she’d start ripping it all apart. When the mistakes became too frequent, that was it. Maybe that’s where I get it from, lol.

Where did you hear knitting is easier? I was under the impression that crocheting is much easier.

I’m not sure where exactly, just something I heard a few times and it stuck.

I just looked around and found mixed opinions. Though, I found this one which may sum up the debate.

> Crochet is harder to go from 0 to 1 but knitting is harder to go from 1 to 10.

Both knitting and crochet are very difficult and frustrating at first. Harder, I think, than your first time picking up a guitar.

The initial hump is steep but fairly small. It took me about four or five tries before I could make stitches. Once I got over that initial challenge, it got a lot smoother. Since then, there have been continuous incremental challenges, but all fairly small.

I haven't gotten over the hump with crochet. I'm left-handed but knit right-handed because mirroring everything is very hard. The entire knitting world presumes right-handed knitting. However, I knit Continental style which uses both hands and engages the left hand a lot, so I don't find that it feels very "wrong".

However, with crochet, I don't think I could ever hold the hook with my right hand. But also mirroring everything while trying to learn is not easy.

> I'm so slow it takes too much time for me to not think that it's a waste of time because I could have done something more meaningful instead.

That's the funny thing about the idea of meaningful things. It is solely determined by what you think is meaningful. Personally, just sitting and making something is an extremely meaningful activity to me.

Could you try crocheting something for a purpose? Say, make small stuffed toys to donate to a local charity?

That way, the task becomes "meaningful" and thus worthy of the additional time and focus that it demands, without becoming a pressing obligation on you to cause additional stress...

I did have a purpose and it didn't help much in this regard, it only helped with keeping up the friendly pressure to actually finish them. But generally, your advice is good nonetheless.

Done something meaningful instead?

Why don't you just do it for fun or while relaxing? I don't quite understand why it wouldn't be meaningful.

I absolutely did it for fun and to learn something new, it just didn't feel like as much fun as I had anticipated to me personally. I want it to be fun and relaxing, there is some fun in it but it's not relaxing.

Until you're more experienced, listen to music or something else where it's okay if you take your focus off of it to focus on counting your stitches. Yes, it won't be "productive," but your crocheting is already productive.

While I agree with you, I don't think that "mastering" crocheting takes very long at all. Maybe two weeks of an hour a day - MUCH less than knitting.

The early stages of any craft can feel more like mental gymnastics than relaxation

Absolutely! The difference is that with other things the learning curve can be part of the fun while you are in the process of figuring things out. With crotcheting, it only really takes a couple of minutes to get going, but doing it fast and consistently takes time, but you aren't really learning anything new other than becoming faster, so the emotional return isn't as big compared to, let's say, learning a new language or playing an instrument. It's just very mechanical by nature; which is a good thing, but for me personally, it takes away a bit of the joy.

It's more about flow than discovery after a point

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