Is it true that “the only ”intuitive“ interface is the nipple”? | Hacker News Reader

Is it true that “the only ”intuitive“ interface is the nipple”?

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26 pointsitsbits23 comments

As a parent of a newborn who is my first child: no, nipples are not intuitive.

You have to get the baby to open his/her mouth and put it around the breast, bringing the nipple up to the roof of their mouth. That part might be intuitive.

Then you have to get them to form a tight seal with their mouth. They're definitely not great at this.

Then you have to get them to do both of the previous steps at the same time while also sucking hard and not breaking the seal. People make entire lifetime careers out of being "lactation consultants" to help parents train their babies to do this properly.

Then there are the extra problems that aren't directly related to sucking that interfere with eating. For example, our baby would fall asleep within five minutes of starting to eat, he was so relaxed. The pediatrician got us to escalate attempts at keeping him awake until we were literally holding ice cubes against his feet to keep him awake while eating, which is about the only level of stimulus that would stop him going to sleep.

He's getting the hang of it now, though. But it took two months of training around eight times a day, which probably isn't going to meet anyone's definition of an intuitive interface.

Arguably, a big part of the reason why "lactation consultants" exist is because breastfeeding has become relatively uncommon in places like the U.S. It's not that the nipple isn't an intuitive interface—it's breastfeeding that must be learned, and the generational transmission of that knowledge has broken down.

Question, do you have children of your own? Have you been through the process of watching a baby learn to breastfeed?

Technically you're right, breastfeeding must be learned. And breastfeeding is in large part the skill of assisting and teaching babies how to nurse effectively. The fact that they need that teaching says that the skill is not intuitive.

Admittedly they do come armed with reflexes to make them more easily trainable. But the training is needed.

i thght its easy for children on breast feeding..so there is no intuitive one in the world....

As far as I have seen "intuition" is true for newborn cattle.

My friend just had a kid and they are training the baby on this exact thing... So I guess it isn't intuitive after all. There are even experts on how to train your baby to "interface" with a nipple.

Weird!

I found that out after my first child was born, too. Yay! Nothing is intuitive. It's all learned.

Before there is a baby to latch onto a nipple, ask yourself how the baby was conceived. I'm pretty sure that's the most intuitive interface among all mammals.

No, sex has to be learned and mammals often don't get it right at first.

Well, for that matter, latching is not always immediate and successful either - but there is by necessity at least someone who has accomplished it before involved. Not necessarily so with the other intuitive interfacing.

Agree on M-F. Have folks never built electronics? Simple, intuitive M-F interfaces are everywhere. A Nipple is a far more subtle and complex, for a host of reasons (local storage, flow regulation), and as a result usage is a more learned behaviour (as noted above).

Millions of babies have trouble latching for whatever reason, so maybe there is no true universally intuitive interface.

This is true. There are a lot of misconceptions about latching on when it comes to newborns. It can be a struggle and very emotional and frustrating process for the mother. Especially if she thinks it should just happen. Someone's it does, but sometimes it can take days of prodding and encouragement. (my daughter is two)

No interface, the nipple included, is intuitive to 100% of people. When we talk about an interface being intuitive, we mean that it is intuitive for someone.

Mac programs feel intuitive to Mac users. Windows programs feel intuitive to Windows users. Any kind of software is more intuitive to those who have experience with computers than to those who don't.

When designing an interface, you need to know your users and make your interface intuitive to them.

It's intuitive because of the rooting reflex.

Saw title, thought it was referring to the Thinkpad pointing interface. Was immediately disappointed.

I thought the same thing, probably because of this: http://xkcd.com/243/

If you want insight onto the quote and whre it comes from, see http://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/misc/nipple.html (unfortunately the true source is unknown).

It is also worth reading to the end to notice that the person who did most to popularize it amended it after having children.

I did nothing to popularize that quote. I made a throwaway remark in a usenet forum in the early 90s, something along the lines of "someone smarter than me said...". I wanted to point out that X11 in general is not any less "intuitive" than Mac OS9 user interface conventions. "Intuitive" was a big thing in 1993, believe it or not.

Someone else picked it up, put the saying in a Linux quote-of-the-day file, and it took off from there. Misattribution at its finest, if you ask me.

I'm sorry for misunderstanding your role in the spread of the quote. Anyways, it is a nice quote, and I personally empathized with the updated version after my son was born and I saw how hard breast feeding was.

Breast feeding is hard to learn, no doubt about it. I disavowed the saying when I had learned that, and had an opportunity to do so. But the saying does point out how absurd the 1990s human interface "intuitive" fad was.

I'm half remembering a BBC documentary with Robert Winston. He holds a newborn baby and explains we're born with a few instincts. He then looks at the baby and grins, the baby smiles back.

Maybe "Smiling is the only intuitive interface, after that it's all learned." Assuming I remembered that scene correctly.

wow...nice...guess i have to agree with that.. but only partially....may be a baby smiles..but in the present world people(mainly girls and managers) even try to make artificial smiles...i remember in college my batch girls trying different smiles for the batch snaps..

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