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Comment by Freak_NL | Hacker News Reader

I wish we had those hanko. Signing off on any parcel is complete bullshit at the moment. Most delivery drivers neglect to ask for one (or that code you are supposed to give them for some delivery services), and when they do, you just make some arbitrary squiggle on their handheld device — it's not like you can actually do a faithful reproduction of your signature on those, even in 2025, and I certainly can't using my finger instead of a pencil or pen.

Yesterday a courier brought a pallet with my new drill press costing over €500. Signature required, but when I asked he told me not to worry, there was no need…

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The fundamental problem with deliveries is that you, as the recipient, are not the customer.

The merchant pays for thousands of deliveries, but you on the receiving end are at best getting a handful.

So the courier is incentivised to offer the best rates to the merchant while completely ignoring the requirements or preferences of the recipient.

Your only recourse is to complain to the shop, who might do something if the volume of complaints is high enough, but most likely they’ll just pass the buck to the courier…

The recipient getting their stuff stolen is a big deal for the merchant too, though.

Certainly for an expensive item, the customer may be out their time, but they are going to ask for a replacement or a refund or do a chargeback, the merchant is generally going to have to accede to the request, and the merchant ends up being out money.

So if the merchant decides to trade off security for delivery cost (by choosing a courier with a slack approach to verification), that's their prerogative and they are economically incentivized to make the right decision on that.

For delivery problems that don't result in a chargeback (the courier leaves it somewhere inconvenient, or claims you weren't in, etc, but it eventually gets to you) that's the situation where it becomes your problem and the merchant isn't much empowered or incentivized to fix it.

Agreed about the signing.. that's useless. But at least for some shipments with value we have to show an ID (not just any ID - I always carry my passport though), back in my home country. Just signing is worthless, in particular when that implies trying to "write" something on a touch screen using your finger.

Here in Japan there's typically this little circle where you're supposed to stamp you hanko.. but I just sign my name, with a pen, whether the parcel is for me or for my wife. But at least the delivery guy will have me read the form to verify that it's actually for someone in the household.

Not that I would prefer the hanko.. that idiocy just have to go. I can see no safety in the system, it's just a made-up stamp after all. It has no place in a modern world. And it's on the way out, as far as I understand, but I still hear stories about people forgetting the hanko when they go to the bank, and despite having passports and other IDs they're denied service. And you need to bring that thing everywhere for contracts and the like.. and everything has to be done by physical presence.

UPS driver left a $3500 MacBook Pro on my front steps, didn't even ring the bell... signature required my ass.

Don't know the last time I've been required to sign for something. That said, I live in a semi-rural location very well off the road.

Most delivery companies enacted signature exemption rules for covid and are in no hurry to rescind them. Getting signatures takes time, which affects their bottom line.

Protip: Ask for hold at location. Downside, you must drive to the facility. Upside, less hassle than if package is pirated.

https://www.ups.com/us/en/track/change-delivery

https://www.fedex.com/en-us/shipping/hold-at-location.html

I suppose it depends on your assessment of the risk. For me, taking an extra 30-45 minutes to pick something up is a pretty high bar. I've had a couple mis-deliveries at home but it's rare and think I eventually got the items. That's versus hundreds of other deliveries.

UPS closed my local facility to the public last month. Now I can only drop packages off at third parties for a fee, and the nearest hold location is over an hour away.

UPS was very unfriendly for consumer dropoffs for ages. That changed a bit. But seems to be headed back and I rarely get deliveries of Amazon stuff via UPS any longer.

Salutes for using the term piracy correctly, well done.

Ass print?

Signature required shifts the burden of proof.

If your drill press had been delivered to the wrong person, and the sender had chosen insured delivery (which automatically requires a signature), it would be easy to prove that the signature on file with the transporter did not match the actual signature of the recipient (i.e. you) (unless a fraudster forged your signature, that is).

Mind you, from what I understand, the seller is legally responsible up to the point of delivery in the Netherlands*. Therefore, even if your drill press hadn’t been sent with required signature, the shop would still be responsible in case it had been lost (but then the loss would come out of their own pocket, rather than that of the transporter).

Disclaimer: not a lawyer.

* Assuming you’re from the Netherlands due to your user name.

All that means is that as the receiving party there is absolutely no reason for me to sign anything, or even use my actual signature.

Indeed, if the pallet was delivered to the wrong address and someone just took it, the burden of proof would lie with the selling party. Of course, a reputable transporter will make sure the address is right (plus, people generally don't act as if they were indeed expecting a pallet delivered by lorry).

> All that means is that as the receiving party there is absolutely no reason for me to sign anything, or even use my actual signature.

Yes, but this actually doesn’t matter.

The only time when the signature on file is actually relevant is when the sender lodges a claim for non-delivery. In that case, it could be compared to your actual signature.

Conversely, if no claim is lodged, the package must have been successfully delivered.

Disclaimer: not a lawyer.

I bought a Steam Deck off amazon and they sent me a code on the day of delivery telling me to only provide this code to the delivery person face to face while receiving the parcel.

That seems like the perfect system because if you assume Amazon isn't trying to steal from you, the system can prove if the parcel was properly delivered or not.

It's a pain in the ass here with Polish Post with such screens - my signature doesn't even resembles one on the paper. Private delivery companies just call you to see if you're at home; you also have mobile apps and most of the time is possible to redirect packages to parcel machines. And these spawn like "shrooms after rain", as we say. They cared for codes, manual signing during pandemic but now - not really.

Things have changed in the recent past, and you very rarely need your hanko. Maybe for marriage? Nowadays you cab register your signature at a bank and use it for any activity as well.

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