Hacker News Reader

Comment by ar813 | Hacker News Reader

If they can do this to Harvard, what hope do other universities have?

They’re trying to make an example of Harvard so they don’t need to force anyone else to tow the line. Other universities will self censor.

nit: fyi it's "toe the line"

Most the universities will do the thing asked in order to re-instate their student visa certification. i.e. provide intel needed to deport any students that they believe have opinions that are not in the interest of national security.

Most likely Harvard will try to fight it in court and then give in if they lose. It's not likely we see the future decertification continue into the academic year.

> they believe have opinions that are not in the interest of national security

So people committing thought crimes huh?

This is the US in 2025 - indefinitely imprisoning people without any actual charges for having opinions the current administration doesn't like.

This is the country of free speech zones away from the main event in the early 2000s and sending WWI dissenters to jail in 1914. You’ve long pretended to have freedoms you’ve never actually been given and this is hardly new.

More like those freedoms get violated on occasion in the name of national security, because administrations are largely able to get away with it during certain crisis.

Great question, right to the heart of the matter. First higher learning, somewhere down the line, ordinary people? In my small world, I'm very clear I'm anti-trump on every issue. As an ordinary person, how long before I get on some Stalin type radar? If trump lobbies for and gets a third term, will there be an awakening to how far the abuse will go?

I expect some government AI will soon be trawling through the databases of every social media network and assembling a political profile of every US resident. (They’re already starting to do this for tourists and visitors: https://www.newscientist.com/article/2479045-us-government-i...)

dictators always start with the groups they hate most and then move down the list. Trump has always hated elite universities and academia.

Can they really do this? You're telling me this is real and not one of those "just for show" things that have no real teeth and will eventually get overturned by a judge?

Checks and balances are just words. So yes, they can and will do everything they want.

I mean Harvard will fight back in court. The courts are last bastion. Once the executive branch stops following what the courts order the checks and balances are gone.

How is the Supreme Court's 9-0 decision in favor of returning Garcia working out?

The courts have been beaten months ago. We are well into crazy train territory.

Lol Rubio told Xinis on national TV he was intentionally stonewalling any information to her, and she took it like a bitch and just kept rolling with keeping most their 'secrets' under seal (despite earlier talking big game of exposing them to sunlight).

The courts aren't even trying, they could order someone into contempt, but they won't.

"Ninth Circuit? Never heard of them. How many divisions do they have?"

We are in a non-constitutional crazy train territory, which will continue unless the right leaning voters do something about it at mid-terms. We're in the beginning of a very dangerous era.

They're not going to do anything about it. This is what they voted for. They thrive on our fear and anger. This is their revenge for the perceived wrongs of the Obama and Biden administrations.

> Checks and balances are just words.

By that logic, Trump's orders are just words. The Trump administration obeys the courts - they push the envelope way too far, but it is still rule of law.

> The Trump administration obeys the courts

No they don't:

https://apnews.com/article/deportation-immigration-south-sud...

That is happening, but it's a narrow instance. It doesn't mean there aren't serious issues, but the GGP said, "Checks and balances are just words." Obviously that is not true.

Also, Trump is relying on Congress to pass bills, for example. It's not rule by decree.

They deported a man to El Salvador against a court order and then ignored an order from the Supreme Court to return him.

That's one person. While it's very important, it doesn't at all mean the courts don't exit.

> order from the Supreme Court to return him.

The Supreme Court did not order that.

Edit: If you object to these things, realize you are helping the Trump administration by spreading exaggerated fears about what's happening. They want people to believe they are super-powerful, unstoppable, inevitable; it intimidates people into inaction. Also, without accurate information, people can't make good decisions and act - you are helping a propaganda campaign (unwittingly). And finally, spreading fear is not what good, responsible leaders - or teammates - do.

[flagged]

> The Trump administration obeys the courts

We have multiple judges beginning contempt proceedings against the administration, so this is open to debate.

And, there's recent action in the budget bill to attempt to defang judges' contempt powers, seemingly in response.

"No court of the United States may use appropriated funds to enforce a contempt citation for failure to comply with an injunction or temporary restraining order if no security was given when the injunction or order was issued"

Would you consider habeas corpus a critical element of rule of law?

There's been loose talk, but no violations of habeas corpus orders.

Have there been violations of the priciple of habeas corpus?

> will eventually get overturned by a judge

Will the people who had to transfer or leave be made whole? Even if a judge overturns this it will take time that the students impacted by this will have to pay, regardless of outcome.

Absolutely they have explicit powers to do this. Harvard is refusing to comply with the requirements of the visa program that allows them to bring student into the country so the administration is removing Harvard from the program.

There is little to no chance of this getting overturned.

There is a 99% chance of this getting overturned.

Harvard will sue, lose in court, and then give DHS everything they want at which point they'll get their visas back.

They just want to pretend to be the victim for a while so that their overwhelmingly far-left faculty don't leave.

That's a weird way of phrasing things. Harvard isn't "bringing students into the country" in the way an employer might relocate an employee.

People want to study in the US, and the administration is revoking Harvard's ability to be on the list of study destinations.

The students want to go to Harvard, it's not that Harvard wants the students (of course they do, but that's not the direct concern here).

Seems most universities don't really care as long as the money keeps flowing. They jumped quickly on the DEI bandwagon and they will quickly hop off too.

Many already have.

Yea, that’s the message they are trying to send.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com