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System 76 makes a great product in this space honestly. I always recommend them to people who are interested in trying linux. They ship with linux pre-installed, its exactly like buying a dell with windows.

https://system76.com/

I am not affliated with them, I am a customer and I like their products.

I concur. I own a System 76 laptop, and it runs PopOS. It's been stable for years (taking the regular updates). They make a variety of hardware products ranging from portable/lightweight laptop to beefy engineering workstation.

(also not affiliated with them, just want to support good products/company)

This. I bought a System76 laptop in 2011 which is still working very well with lubuntu for office and browser and such, it's now the laptop of my neighbourhood association. I could without problem upgrade RAM and drive to SSD, I could even swap the keyboard after I broke it.

I bought a new one from them this year, still incredible hardware.

My only issue with them, which is a big one, is that they ship only from USA. So as EU customer I have to pay VAT on top!

People say more Linux availability would make it mainstream. However, Chromebooks are one of the most available laptops. The software is 100% compatible with hardware, and in many cases, the Play Store is included to address the lack of software. That is more than enough for casual computing and office work—two massive segments of the PC user market. And people still don't like them. ChromeOS's market share is similar to that of all the other Linux distributions.

I think the Windows and MacOS brands have become lifestyle choices. Windows is the "gamer" and "corporate" choice. MacOS is the "student" and "luxury" choice. Linux is the "hacker" choice (they use Arch, by the way). Like iOS vs Android, Xbox vs PlayStation, Toyota vs BMW, and all other brand tribalisms, it seems like most people are emotionally drawn to one or another.

> The software is 100% compatible with hardware, and in many cases, the Play Store is included to address the lack of software

The problem is that the Play store and Linux environments on ChromeOS are both run in VMs.

On a machine with good specs, this is perfectly fine. But when cheaper ChromeOS devices ship with 4GB of RAM, older mediatek APUs, and emmc instead of SSDs, it's just an outright bad experience.

If Google starts pushing Android Desktop as a replacement for ChromeOS, I think that could be interesting. Being able to run the Play store without the overhead of a VM will make Android potentially a much better experience than ChromeOS.

> On a machine with good specs, this is perfectly fine.

I think the VMs are fine on the type of machines most people would buy for Windows/macOS. Chromebooks go exceptionally low-spec on the low-end to the point that I'd say their lowest-spec machines probably aren't direct competition for Windows laptops, wouldn't you agree?

I agree making ISOs is too cumbersome now. But I think the install is 90% there. Realistically hiding options under an advanced menu would make it no different than when you first get a windows or Mac.

Fwiw, you can get it preinstalled on System 76, makers of Pop. I'm a bit surprised Framework doesn't do it. But this seems easy to expand

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Maybe I or someone else can help out. What's your distro, GPU, Linux kernel, and driver? Sometimes that interplay can create weird mismatches but I have rarely experienced them in the last 5 years (but extremely common prior to that!). Pop and EndeavourOS specifically target NVIDIA GPUs and can be the easiest "fix". Pop being more Ubuntu like and EndeavourOS being more Archy. Being power user I'd suggest the latter as it has a lot less bloat. Fwiw I daily drive EndeavourOS with a 4080S (previously 3080Ti) without too many problems. Only getting HDR at 60fps when trying to use my TV as a display. Other then that two issues where a kernel driver mismatch happened, solved by a rollback and avoidable by using stable releases.

I'm not much of a gamer but will play some AAA and a handful of indie games. Occasional issues like Steam not loading the GUI (right click menu bar and directly open library fixes), and occasionally sync issues because VPN, or minor like needing to launch a game twice. But FWIW, past 3 years I've never needed to touch proton. I'm really hoping SteamOS gets a broader release soon. I'm not sure if I can help much here but I do know graphics cards which might help?

I'll definitely agree UI/UX in many apps needs major improvements. I've seen a trend in the right direction though. Alongside the same improvements in OS. We need people to realize that your backend doesn't matter if people can't use it. Design is hard. The magic is the interaction between awesome backend and awesome design. I think this philosophy is growing. Hopefully. Momentum appears to be building

Appreciate it but this was like 18 months ago, on a Lenovo Legion 5 which I've since sold to my niece. Main issue was brightness - basically having to reboot Linux twice to get it to work. Once to switch GPU mode and once to select a kernel because it would often fail to boot for some reason until I went through that. I don't remember the details too well - I documented some here: https://retorch.com/blog/linux-mint.htm

Linux Mint w/ KDE for most of the two month period.

Nowadays like 95% of my gaming is Digital Board Games on Steam which I'm mostly quite sure would run fine on Linux. Anno 1800 was one of the rare instances of LAN multiplayer which is rare in games these days and poorly supported.

When I'm really active sometimes as a group we'll start a new Survival game together, and it's nice when you can be involved. Games like Valheim run awesome on Linux, and I had no issues with Conan, ARK, etc. Occasionally a game isn't supported and that's when it's a bummer.

Still, sorry to hear the experience. I'd have been frustrated too.

For the brightness, hard to say what's wrong without more details. But I hope someone pointed you towards xrandr, which would allow you to manually set the brightness and help determine if it was just a bad setting (edit to /sys/). But could be a kernel issue too. Which sounds a lot scarier than it actually is.

I'll admit, fractional scaling sucks every time I've used it. There are some settings that can help, like letting applications control their setting instead of system. But I don't have enough experience with this, but can confirm it can be frustrating. (xrandr can help here too btw)

The booting is super weird. But that's also something I would have definitely been able to help with. It can seem like black magic at first but it eventually makes sense. Just most people don't bother learning because it usually isn't an issue (my friend and I had a dumb competition to get the fastest boot... We each got under 3s cold and under 2s warm. It was silly, but learned a lot)

Re Steam: I haven't had to do this in a while, but sometimes changing the proton version can make a world of difference. I haven't tried those games though so I can't speak from direct experience.

I will say, I'm not a fan of Mint. I do think Pop and Endeavour are better entry ways. So if you ever try it again, I'd recommend one of those. I'll also say that laptops tend to be a bit more finicky than desktops, especially around display issues. Things are worlds better than they used to be but it is definitely an uphill battle. Lots of variance and not enough resources dedicated to tackling the problems. Hopefully the continued momentum makes this completely a thing of the past. (Battery issues are also a common issue with laptops. In particular putting mobile GPUs into their hibernate state. NVIDIA hasn't been the kindest here...)

As a "not linux expert" I think distribution selection is... a pain point.

It's a bit like the Fediverse. I'm quite happy now, on Hachyderm.io, but it took some trial and error, and the median social media user is ill prepared to go out, select a Fediverse home, and begin piecing things together.

But back to Linux. It's hard to know which distribution, and why you'd select it, when you don't know about Linux. Coming from Windows, it was "Home" or "Pro" (once upon a time). Linux is... though you might not know it, Debian or Fedora, and then a dozen or two varieties off those branches, and then the Window Manager, and then the desktop.

I know nothing about Endeavour, but I've heard of Pop, and I thought it was a thin layer on top of Ubuntu? Not sure why Mint is so different? It's Ubuntu-based too? This adventure actually started with Nobara, which is "marketed" if there is such a thing, as being good for gaming. But I actually had no good experiences with it at all. And did some research and Mint seemed very friendly (and largely was!) But I didn't like Cinnamon much. Anyway, my point is... distribution can have a huge impact on overall experience, but it's very hard to decide on distribution without knowing a lot more about Linux. That pre-education is much more investment than most Windows users would want to make.

EDIT: Oof, I found EndeavorOS on Kagi and... the home page loads, and it says "Mercury Neo with Linux 6.13.7 and Arch mirror ranking bug fix"

I know a few of those words. What am I looking at? I think Linux needs a marketing team!

Yeah distros can be confusing. For the most part it isn't too big of a deal and the main difference is the package manager. apt and dpkg for distros based on Debian (includes Ubuntu), dnf for RedHat (Fedora, CentOS, etc), and pacman for Arch. There's more but you'd run into these the most. I'll be honest, it mostly doesn't matter and it is nerdy quibbling. That said, I still think PopOS is probably the best to start out on because it has some focus around making NVIDIA drivers work. They also build their own laptops (System76) so have some extra experience there. Endeavour is good, but it is Arch based so "rolling-release", meaning you're essentially always using beta software. Mostly not a problem but can lead to some additional instability. I wouldn't expect any real issues, but should be clear.

  > "Mercury Neo with Linux 6.13.7 and Arch mirror ranking bug fix"

Yeah... that is weird to put at the top. It's a link to a new blog post. Mercury is their codename, the 6.13.7 is the Linux kernel, Arch mirror being where packages are hosted, and just prioritizing bug fixes. You can read the article if you want. Better would be looking at their about[0] or scroll down further on the front page past the mirrors. IDK why they don't put these things at the top. Definitely a mistake. Pop definitely does this better[1]

[0] https://endeavouros.com/about-us/

[1] https://system76.com/pop/