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Comment by elzbardico | Hacker News Reader

This was from 2021 and in the end he was at least able to talk to some humans and solve the issue. As bad as it was, it was still miles ahead of what you could expect in a similar situation with google.

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The fact that you can’t talk to a human about being locked out of Gmail which is used for millions of people’s entire lives is absolutely mind blowing

The fact that in 2025 there is still no "rights" or "due process" for users is astonishing, you can be banned by automated systems, refused any reason, refused any actual recourse, and it's just forever. Thoroughly inadequate for platforms that have become entrenched in modern life.

It’s also interesting to consider this in the context of some of the anti-trust litigation going on. I have complicated feelings overall but the fact that I might no longer be able to sync my Chrome settings because of automation applied to my YouTube account is not comforting. If these companies stay together there needs to be a change to how account banning is handled.

> fact that in 2025 there is still no "rights" or "due process" for users is astonishing

Most Google users don’t pay a dime for their services. I don’t think it’s reasonable to mandate customer service for free users.

Google generates nearly $200 billion a year in ad revenue off those users so I don't think depicting them as a charity is accurate.

> don't think depicting them as a charity is accurate

They’re not a charity. But they also don’t owe their users for what’s tendered for free.

Where I’d agree with OP is in requiring extensive CS for paying users.

Whenever a company has hundreds of billions in one hand and an excuse not to spend it it is usually a case of "privatize the profits, socialize the costs".

Ban gmail addresses being used for government services, banking, health, utilities etc if they don't want to dip into the staggering profits they generate off these "free" users to guarantee basic rights and recourse from their own systems.

I’d expect Google would love such legislation as it effectively raises the bar on new-entrant competition.

Considering Proton can provide this level of support I doubt it raises the bar very much.

https://proton.me/support/contact?topic=Other

> If you would prefer to contact us without using this form, you can email us at support@protonmail.zendesk.com. You can visit this page for more options.

...those more options:

> You can still contact us directly

> All support requests are handled in-house by Proton, but if you have specific concerns and would like to keep your query within Proton Mail (that is, not using Zendesk), you can email us directly at contact@proton.me.

Most of Proton’s users aren’t free.

What makes you think that?

> Yen says that "at least 95%" of ProtonMail users don't pay for any services.

https://www.axios.com/2021/11/09/privacy-business-booming-pr...

> They’re not a charity. But they also don’t owe their users for what’s tendered for free.

It's not for free, why do you keep repeating this line? Google isn't offering charitable good and services to people.

where do you think their billions come from?

I find it hard to understand your comment as you have put a banker title in your profile, but at the same you are out of sync that Google is already providing bank services...

That's the reason I hate to peek at people's profile when I don't agree with their comments. Now I know that OP is a banker and deals with private equity, I can't answer him, because I'd fatally slip into an ad hominem.

Google is making money off of you by selling your data and showing you ads. The fact that the money they're making off of you isn't coming directly from you is irrelevant.

If a small restaurant serves spoiled food to homeless people, and they get sick, the restaurant will be liable.

Nobody is forcing you to give things for free, so, you're responsible for those customers as much as you are for the paying ones.

And actually, it is not for free.

Some people consider that a security feature.

We have had contact with Apple support about three times since 2007 and every time they were both reachable by phone and extremely helpful. Last time there was an issue with ordering Apple Care for a MacBook leading to the amount getting subtracted from our account twice. It took only a few minutes to escalate it from the first line of support to their financial department. After the issue was solved, they called back after a week to make sure things were also good on my end. Same thing happened when my wife had an issue about 10 years ago, not only were they very helpful, they also called her a week later to make sure everything was up to her expectations. (This was in NL and DE respectively.)

The only other large company that I have similar experiences with is our ISP (KPN in NL) who are also really easy to get hold off and very helpful (down to helping you hook up your own fiber equipment).

I was automatically blocked by Google when I was a teenager, lost data that meant a lot to me… I even wrote a letter to the local Google office asking for help, to no response. To no surprise, there’s no Google in my life since then, except when my work mandates it.

Apple support is amazingly good. It’s stark when most other companies have “optimized” customer service to discourage users from using or achieving anything through it. It’s also often an interesting glimpse into Apple’s behind the scenes tech support tools which are quite extensive.

Yes. Even outside of US. Had a pending unauthorized Apple Store purchase on my CC, it was a 5 minute wait before I could reach a person on Apple Support app and get clarification.

Yes, even in what are called developing countries.

It’s a good thing that Google doesn’t have a credit card (or does it?)

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