Hacker News Reader

Comment by Neywiny | Hacker News Reader

Much agreement with the others that there's too much expectation. I rented a lime scooter for the first time last year. But, I messed up my VPN settings so I had no Internet. There was no way to tell the scooter I'm done. Even though it was stopped, no button to end the ride. They refunded me the extra time (which was maybe 5 of the 10 minutes) because they could see it was just stopped at a bike rack on gps. Idk what I'd do if my phone died or any other reasonably possible things when you're out and about and on a scooter.

View on HN

Reminds me of DHL parcel lockers in Germany. The new ones don't have a screen anymore, so you are forced to use their app to use the locker, which somehow requires both a working bluetooth connection to communicate with the locker, AND you need a working internet connection on your phone. What's the point of that?! The parcel locker evidently already has a working internet connection, that should be enough.

Are you sure that the locker has an Internet connection?

Requiring Bluetooth and an Internet connection on your phone suggests that that's exactly what they removed on their side. Quite clever, if true – why pay for network connectivity if you can just piggy back on your customers'? (Nevermind those customers without a smart phone and data plan...)

> Are you sure that the locker has an Internet connection?

Let's put it like this: The old ones (with a display) definitely do, because they can send email notifications. I would be very much surprised if the new ones didn't. The main reason for requiring the app isn't connectivity to the outside world, it is that they can save money on the terminal screens, which get vandalized frequently in some areas. The internet connection is probably a fraction of the cost of replacing those touch screens every few months.

Reminds me of a cashless hotel laundromat that I had to use that didnt accept coins, tokens or had a credit card reader. So to wash my clothes I had to find a charger to charge my phone, download an app, being able to receive SMS 2FA while roaming which is a hit or miss depending on roaming agreements, having working internet connection, enabling Bluetooth and Bluetooth Nearby Devices, and then top it up with a foreign credit card. It took about 30 minutes to set it up.

I guess this would be easier in a beighbourhood laundromat with local clients, but in a hotel with many foreigners it becomes a pain with so many dependencies needed to use the washer and dryer.

1) It's possible they do not have an Internet connection. In fact, it doesn't seem necessary.

2) Bluetooth can ensure that you are in proximity of the locker, otherwise you could accidentally unlock a locker while standing at the wrong rack.

They always had internet access. Of course it is possible that they decided to rip out the internet connection in the new models together with the touch screen, but I heavily doubt that they want to trust the internet connection of a random stranger to do whatever important communication they have to do with their servers. The app only requires internet access because... well, it always needs internet access.

I'm currently developing firmware that supports both Bluetooth and cellular connection for a hardware device. With proper cryptography, you don't have to trust the random stranger (e.g. using TLS). In fact, you can get away with no connection at all. For example, when someone locks the locker, it sets a "password" via Bluetooth and when you open it, your phone simply transmits the "password" via Bluetooth.

I'm not just thinking of trust in terms of whether the device will tamper with the data, but also stuff like: What happens if you just put the parcel in the locker and in that exact moment the internet connection cuts out? Normally the parcel locker would send some data to DHL servers (as made evident by the fact that the lockers can send a confirmation mail), how do you get that information out now? Of course you could queue it up until the next person arrives, but all of that seems... suboptimal to me.

Cellular modems and data plans can be expensive and unreliable. If you can do without, at the cost of very rarely being out of sync (like in your scenario), it can be considered an interesting tradeoff. Plus, even if they were equipped with cellular modems, they probably have a business requirement that the locker should be usable even when the cellular connection goes offline, so you have to design your protocol to be Bluetooth-first.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com