Hacker News Reader

Comment by izacus | Hacker News Reader

I find it deeply ironic that HN users DEMAND that Linux/macOS/Windows all implement this exact sandboxing (where user controls which files apps can access) and then threads like these are full of angry people demanding that Google allows Android apps to just demand access to all private photos, documents and app data with one blanket permission (which was abused by every malware ridden game out there).

Android supports scoped storage which is fine for Nextcloud and requires NO extra permissions. It gives control to user because user then selects which directories they want to give Nextcloud to.

Nextcloud just needs to put in the work to support it properly instead of just demanding full unfettered disk access to all photos and app data with no user control over it.

View on HN

> users controls which files apps can access

> Google allows Android apps to just demand access to all private photos

Your own words betray that you are probably confused about what the problem actually is. From my perspective, I think people generally want the same thing on both platforms: the user be in charge of which files the OS gives access to applications.

As a developer that did many of those migrations, I can claim that it's crystally clear what the problem is.

Storage Access Framework is a framework where user decides which files an app can access and see. That's the API Nextcloud refuses to use.

Old READ_EXTERNAL_STORAGE (replaced with MANAGE_EXTERNAL_STORAGE now) permission gives full access to all shared storage data (where for example DCIM directory with all private photos and their locations lives) without exception or privacy filters like EXIF stripping. This permission was required by many games, malware apps and everyone with 5 minutes of time that could paste that string into the app and refused to allow users to run the app without granting it. It was VERY common to demand access to all storage at startup just to do simple things like download a potential file.

That's the API Nextcloud demands to use and Google is telling them that they can't because they should be using SAF.

You're not replying to what I actually said.

Then you tried to say is different than what you wrote. Because giving control to the user is why migration to the new API is actually necessary.

Or you just didn't know the context of what you're commenting on.

So google did nothing with those malware apps and now is doing something with a legitimate, very popular app? It does not compile.

Is nextcloud malware? Yes or no. Why do they treat it as if it is?

They did do something; they introduced a privacy-preserving API to allow users to pick which files the app can access, and only certain apps (file managers, etc) can request the old storage permission and be published on the Play Store.

A cloud sync tool is also a file manager. I don;t know why people act like it isn't.

So you say the user is in control on Android? Like, I can overrule Google when it comes to Google Play Services permissions? I can now deny apps internet access?

You can absolutely deny apps internet access. I do it for the Google Keyboard app.

On stock Android? How? I know how to do this on LineageOS.

NetGuard can do it: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=eu.faircode.ne...

Oh I'm not on stock Android. I'm on lineage

If Nextcloud migrates to the API which allows that control, yes.

> HN users DEMAND that Linux... implement this exact sandboxing (where user controls which files apps can access)

chroot was added to Unix in 1979.

What we want is for the user to be able to choose for themselves.

In reality what happened was that apps and games demanded full access for frivolous reasons. Like Syncthing author which wanted access to all data because they didn't want to call Android APIs and wanted to only use Go.

Then warn the user and let them choose.

Syncthing is written in Golang; the SAF APIs don't work with native code

They do if you bother to write bindings.

ie go through a process that's about as painful as re-writing your application from scratch.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com