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Comment by NoSalt | Hacker News Reader

I know I am in the VAST minority, or perhaps the only one, but I cannot stand frameworks. Sure, there may be a lot of power in them, but there is also a lot of bloat and complexity. IMHO, this "power" can easily be achieved with libraries instead of an IOC framework. After you learn a, typically terse and confusing, framework language, you have to know that framework language along with the base language (Java, C#, JavaScript, Python, etc.) I feel like frameworks are only as popular as they are because product owners and managers like to tick-off the number of tools their developers use; makes them look important, knowledgeable, and efficient.

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I think a big advantage of a framework is that the team(s) don't end up arguing over architecture as much because the framework made those decisions for us. Also the framework has a proven history of this architecture working well for xyz problems. Also it makes finding compatible talent much easier. If you're using a framework, finding someone who has worked with that same framework for years makes it a safer bet that they will start being useful quickly. If you have your own bespoke system, it could be years until a new hire feels comfortable with the existing system's quirks and nuances and stops breaking things as much.

Big corps and certain teams need some standard to agree on. The problem is that often times, someone in charge pushes the wrong framework without due diligence, and either nobody speaks up or they ignore the feedback.

Oh and it's way worse when said framework is home-grown. They can make something totally broken, and they don't take criticism well.

I agree. It's career-driven bullshit bingo. It gives junior's an opportunity to gain an advantage over senior's ("Oh you don't know JavaScript micro-framework 2025 #10?") and everyone involved in billing for time (employees and consultant) a reason to "refactor" and keep the magic money tree around.

I would argue the web has remained more stable than any other development space. You can still build something with jQuery code from 2007, and it's still supported by modern browsers. You can even start using modern browser APIs without even upgrading jQuery. You could add any modern library as long as it doesn't depend on jQuery.

If you had a python 2 codebase from the same year, you would basically have to scorch it and do a rewrite.

some people make framework to help themselves when working.

some doesn't even want to make a framework, the habit and the pattern just repeated intensely and the framework just naturally created.

the way it helps someone maybe tangled you that is normal.

instead hating it, just try to understand why the framework do certain things in certain way.

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