Comment by j_bum | Hacker News Reader

Comment by j_bum | Hacker News Reader

I struggle to relate to this. I have aphantasia, which means I can’t see anything in my mind’s eye.

This is most painful when I try to “imagine” my wife’s face, my family, friends, favorite parts of nature, etc, but am left with nothing.

For me, this means that I struggle to remember things from my past beyond major life events. Even major events can be fuzzy for me.

As a result, I’ve always tried to snap quick pictures of what I’m doing, even if it means I have to “step away” from enjoying the moment for a brief second.

A few months ago, I loaded my 30k+ pics (across ~10 yrs) stored on a hard drive into an Immich instance. I can now easily look at those pictures and remember my past in a way that I simply couldn’t beforehand.

This has been an unbelievable improvement in QoL through an improved self-identity, remembrance of my past, and reconnection with memories of lost loved ones.

I can agree with the author on the disruptive nature of picture taking. But for me, none of what I listed above would be possible without capturing my memories in moderation and with pointed intent.

I'm in much the same boat. While I can recall minute details about major events from long in my past, I cannot "see" them in my head like other people apparently can. Instead I feel like my brain is a police sketch artist with my memory providing a list of details. With the advent of smart phones, I've been able to non-disruptively capture tens of thousands of visual memories I might not otherwise have. And with modern photo management software it's been great to revisit the memories from time to time without having to painstakingly organize them.

As a fellow aphantasic, I couldn’t agree more.

I’ve also learned over the years that photography is actually a gateway to being present for me. I spent the first 30+ years of my life in my head. Photography helps me pay attention to my surroundings, and is a kind of mindfulness practice in many ways.

When I go back and look at old images, it always surprises me how much I’ve forgotten.

I do think it can be taken too far, but at least for me, it’s been an invaluable tool for all of the reasons you mentioned.

Thanks for sharing. It’s very nice to hear from others with similar experiences. I agree about the mindfulness component too.

I’m curious how you capture pics. I use my iPhone. Over the past few years, I’ve also started taking short videos, as the iPhone video processing is just unbelievably good. The videos capture nice audio context, and really help me remember the “being” of the memory. iPhone pics are good too, but of course the sensor size is the main limitation. I have been thinking about looking for a dedicated small digital camera.

Curious to hear what you use!

I picked up an Olympus OM-D E-M5 III (weather sealed) during the pandemic and started going on photo walks. Fell in love with it and have taken it all over the US on road trips and hikes. I’ve since purchased other cameras and have gone pretty deep down the photography rabbit hole. Recently I’ve been eyeing a used Panasonic GX85 to pair with my existing smaller lenses like the Panasonic 20mm f/1.7 because it’s even smaller than the Olympus.

But I still use my iPhone for some things - especially video.

There are some great compact micro four thirds cameras on the market that are better than a phone but still small enough to carry regularly. The “Micro Four Nerds” YouTube channel is a great resource if you’re curious. She covers many of the really compact every day carry cameras on the market and best lenses for various scenarios.

MFT cameras are a great gateway into the hobby, and some of the more vintage looking bodies just inspire me to take them everywhere and take photos.

Highly recommend looking at used gear on sites like mpb.com or keh.com. Can usually find lightly used equipment for significantly less than retail pricing.

Thanks for the detailed overview and the channel recommendation, I’ll definitely check it out!

I'm quite certain I've got aphantasia as well, but despite that I have quite vivid memories.

Except I don't really visualize what was there, but I "feel" them. It's not just a grocery list of elements for a scene, rather I have a strong sensation of being in the moment.

Both my mom and my sister has multiple times expressed surprise at my recall.

On the other hand, old pictures doesn't really do that much for me. Sure it's fun to watch them, and maybe they jog some memories, but I don't feel I need them.

That said, I'm open to future me regretting not taking pictures, so when on vacation or similar I do try to take some pictures.

That’s neat that you used the word “feel”… it’s the exact word I use when I try to describe my experience.

For example, I have a great spatial memory, which is obviously not due to my ability to “see” things in my mind. Instead, when asked how I can remember spatial things (e.g., “which way did we come from on our hike?”), all I can say is that I simply “feel” the path.

If you’re curious, this is because different parts of our brain are responsible for visual spatial processing vs. visual object processing. The dorsal visual pathway is responsible for spatial processing, and the ventral visual pathway is responsible for object processing, like faces. This is all “bottom up” visual processing.

Bottom up visual processing is independent from internal cognitive activation of these pathways, which can arise from frontoparietal engagement of the same “endpoints” as the dorsal/central visual pathways. This is “top down” processing.

My ability to “feel a spatial cognitive map without images” argues that there are some miswirings between my frontoparietal cortex and my temporal cortex. This is why I can still recognize faces, objects, etc., but can’t see them in my mind.

Visual imagery during dreaming adds an entire other layer onto the topic :)

Here are some good reviews and articles on the topic:

[0] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S10538...

[1] https://www.cell.com/trends/cognitive-sciences/fulltext/S136...

[2] https://academic.oup.com/cercorcomms/article/2/2/tgab035/626...

I don't have aphantasia at all (I can recall things visually quite well) but that doesn't mean I have perfect recall of all moments. I love taking photos of things, and to pore over those photos every decade or so. The photos are a reminder of the times, the people, and memories which I may otherwise forget unless jogged periodically.

As a fellow aphantasiac, I'd like to offer a contrasting view. I never felt the need to take a picture of an event in order to remember it in the future. Anything important, I can remember just fine, and the rest is naturally discarded. Aphantasia isn't a cognitive impairment, so chances are you'd struggle to remember events even without it.

Ha,this could have been written by me as well. Aphantasia is so weird to try to describe to people.

I've never been great about taking photos, but my wife always remembers. Recently spent some time consolidating all of the to Immich and being able to see the "memories" every day is incredible.

Awesome!

When I explain it to people, I always ask them to close their eyes and picture an apple on a table. I then ask them what color the apple is. Everyone I’ve ever done this with (except a sibling) answers a color.

I then say, “to me, there is no color, no apple, no table, no outline; nothing.” Always a leads to fun discussion :)

I'll have to use that next time!

you’re supposed to be able to make an image of an apple appear in your brain by thinking about it? Sounds nice.

Well that was a fun side quest for the evening. One thing I read is aphantasia is common among siblings also.

> you’re supposed to be able to make an image of an apple appear in your brain by thinking about it?

This is very similar to how I reacted when I started reading “When the Mind’s Eye is Blind” [0] one day.

Up to that point (I think I was 31 at the time) I had always believed that when people talked about “visualizing” something, it was just a figure of speech. I didn’t realize people meant it literally.

30+ years of situations suddenly clicked and it was like a bomb of realization went off in my brain.

- [0] https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/when-the-minds-ey...

I suppose this is why the mind palace of memory is difficult for me to utilize.

I have read that eskimos lost in the snow and ice have been able to have day hallucinations visually as well auditory. They see and hear birds which do not exist.

A YouTuber simulated it with thick white paper taped to his head with white noise playing head phones after 15-30min, iirc.

Another avenue to look into aside from hallucinogens as referenced in the link could be deep meditation.

My inability to do the mind palace thing is one of those things that suddenly made sense to me.

I've gone deep down a meditation rabbit hole since learning about all of this. No visual imagery yet, but I do see what I would have to describe as a non-specific shimmering/morphing "wave" that comes and goes. Nothing that I could describe as an image of something, but visual phenomena nonetheless.

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