Google Maps now has schedules for 1 million public transit stops | Hacker News Reader

Google Maps now has schedules for 1 million public transit stops

googleblog.blogspot.com

58 pointsashbrahma48 comments

So why can't they show the routes for bus lines???

Clicking on a metro station in lots of cities will draw colored lines of all the metro stations that pass through it. E.g., Times Square:

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=type:transit_station:%22Times...

But this doesn't work for bus routes, which would be 1000x more useful.

Because, with a metro, you can look at a metro map and easily figure out which lines pass through the station -- there are usually only 1, 2, or maybe 3.

But in a lot of cities across the world, there might be 30 bus lines that stop at an intersection, and printed maps don't even exist of the bus lines because there are just too many to draw.

But Google could show the 30 bus lines instantly, so you could actually see how they fan out the further away you get, and you can easily figure out which of the 30 buses, if any, go to your desired neighborhood.

I've been waiting for this feature for YEARS... and it still doesn't exist. :(

It must depend on the data they're given. I can see bus lines in Toronto, but not in Waterloo, ON, for example.

Note that Google's transit directions were a true 20% project when it launched in 2005: https://plus.google.com/109412257237874861202/posts/bwFAz9KZ... When it launched, it was all 20%-ers working on it.

Will we ever see a 20% project like this again?

Remember these days?

http://googlepress.blogspot.com/2004/04/google-gets-message-...

"(Google requires engineers to spend a day a week on projects that interest them, unrelated to their day jobs). "

-- Google Press Release

I find it interesting that Apple is adding driving navigation with no transit or bicycle directions (apart from third-party apps) while Google seems to be really putting a lot of effort into public transit. This is all while car ownership is plummeting among youth, the people who I thought were Apple's core user base.

This stuff is hard, Google has been doing it for years. Apple is just getting started.

I think its more an issue of platform maturity. Google has years on Apple in terms of building up these data sources. Apple (I believe) will be licensing map data, whose cost is not cheap. Google uses mostly their own maps, and have spent years and $$$ building data.

A good portion of the transit data is open; Google defined a transit-route data format (GTFS) and encouraged agencies to publish such data publicly, which a number did: http://code.google.com/p/googletransitdatafeed/wiki/PublicFe...

I'd guess they might also have private arrangements with additional agencies, but a good amount of the data is available to anyone.

Fair point. But having said data is only the first step. Routing and directions based on the data is another.

That list looks really short though.

With iOS 6, Apple released Transit APIs that let third party devs (read: public transit providers) add public transit data themselves.

“The new Transit APIs, referred to by Scott Forstall at 108:58 in Monday's keynote, allow developers to register their app as a directions provider for routing directions for a particular set of coordinates. It will then be displayed in the list of available third-party apps for transit. Clicking a transit app launches that app, passing the start and end values to the app. Contrary to other analysis, transit routes can't be displayed inline from the Maps app.”

This seems to me like a clever move, this way Apple won't have to collect all the data.

http://waxy.org/2012/06/busting_the_ios_6_transit_map_myths/

How many quality transit applications are out there and maintained enough by their public agencies?

I predict that Apple's API cop-out goes precisely nowhere.

I don't know about the situation in the Midwest, but where I live, all the public transit providers offer excellent apps (and they're free!).

Hopefully Google Maps will be the best provide for this data in any given location, once they make their own iOS app.

Why would they do that? Google stands little to gain and a lot to lose by offering a good Google Maps app for iOS.

Many of the features they offer for Google Maps on Android haven't been implemented for iOS (turn by turn navigation, interior views, floor plans, 3D models, etc.)

Google is already polluting the iOS Maps app with sponsored listings, degrading the user experience severely. I doubt that a separate Google Maps app for iOS will be any better.

Seems like you answered your own question there. Why would Google make a good maps app? So that people on ios use it and they can show them sponsored places.

IMO, a Maps app with ads or ‘sponsored places’ is a shitty app. I will always choose a paid app without ads over a ‘free’ app with ads. That's also the main reason why I backed App.net.

When I wrote about a ‘good Google Maps app for iOS’ I meant one that has feature parity with Google Maps on Android and contains no ads. Up until two years a go, the Maps app on iOS was such an app.

This could be an opportunity for Google to leverage the strength of their maps product. Why not just ignore the iOS Google maps app? This would motivate me to switch to Android since the Google maps app is in my top three. Perhaps only second to phone and email. I'm feeling apprehensive about the iOS 6 update given what I've heard about Apple's maps.

When I mention this I receive the response "Google will just make their own iOS app." I'm skeptical given the history of their Gmail app.

> Google is already polluting the iOS Maps app with sponsored listings, degrading the user experience severely

Google and Apple are in a fight, but Google has little to do with the map app that comes on every iOS device. Much like how they came out with Chrome for iOS (despite Apple's crazy limitations) I expect a very nice Maps app as well. One that they control and are allowed to update.

Yes, Apple built the Maps app for iOS, but Google puts its ads in the results. No doubt it was one of the terms for Apple to use their map data.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/timmygunz/7161691115/

It's also clear that Apple would've loved to implement features like turn-by-turn navigation in the Maps app, but Google wouldn't let them. With iOS 6, Apple says goodbye to Google Maps and voilà: turn-by-turn navigation.

It's not clever, it's a kludge. The map can pass start and end coordinates to a third party app that can't even show the route _on_ the map that called it? If Apple is not able to get transit data (which it's not, Google has been at this for years now and started with only a couple cities), then the right solution would be to still leave it to third-party apps, but have some better integration. The apps should be able to draw the route on the Apple map, add stop/route information, etc. Right now, it's barely better than just searching the App Store for "[Your city] transit directions".

“Apple is not able to get transit data”

Anyone is able to get that data. In the US alone, hundreds of transit agencies publish it online in GTFS format. For starters, look at this coverage map: http://bit.ly/gtfscoverage

“The apps should be able to draw the route on the Apple map, add stop/route information, etc.”

I agree, but who's to say that they won't be able to? The first version hasn't even been released yet, and we all know how Apple likes to iterate. Its main focus right now is to not need Google's services anymore and to strip those from the OS as soon as they can.

The submitted blog post from Google says, "Since 2005, we’ve collaborated with hundreds of transit authorities around the world to make a comprehensive resource for millions of riders to find out which bus, train, subway or tram can take them to their next destination." And I will note for the record that in the Twin Cities in Minnesota, where the transit provider is Metro Transit, Google Maps has been for at least two years a BETTER interface for looking up transit trips with easier usability than the Metro Transit website. I have discovered many interesting public transportation connections between unlikely places at unlikely hours of the day by searching Google Maps for my trips.

The bicycle information is also unmatched, and very helpful in the number-one bicycling city in the United States.

http://www.bicycling.com/news/featured-stories/1-bike-city-m...

On 8 October 2010, I had a very gratifying reply from the Google Maps team after reporting a problem with many of the Google Maps bicycling directions in Minneapolis:

"Your Google Maps problem report has been reviewed, and you were right! We'll update the map soon and email you when you can see the change.

"Report history "Problem ID: A12D-84A0-3A9F-A05E

"Your report: Many biking directions to locations on the West Bank campus of the University of Minnesota from suburban locations west of Minneapolis mistakenly go across the Mississippi River to the East Bank campus, even when the correct destination address is entered to select the bike route."

I was glad they fixed the problem, and especially glad about the friendly way their follow-up was communicated to me. It is this kind of response to a user error report that makes me eager to tell friends about Google Maps and leads me to tend to forget that there are still other companies in the geographical information business. Similarly, after I made a couple of suggestions to Google, it seems that Google has systematically improved its once APPALLING mapping of youth soccer fields in Minnesota, crucial for me as the parent of three "travel" soccer players.

Metro Transits site is a horrid abomination.

Just wonder how long until iOS gets the google-ified google maps that has all the transit information.

Also a key play in Google Now. From my office I automatically get a card for the bus stop located outside- I switched it off because I don't use that stop, but I'm interested to see how close I have to get to the subway for it to work.

To achieve this, Google has introduced the GTFS (General Transit Feed Specification) format [1] which is becoming the preferred way to publish transit data. Hundreds of transit agencies around the world are publishing their GTFS feeds, enabling many hackers around the world to make applications that consume this data and improve users' travel experience.

[1] https://developers.google.com/transit/gtfs/reference

This is cool, but I can't help thinking that it's unambitious, for Google. Let's imagine:

The product is not called 'Google Transit', but 'Google Teleport'. It is an auction-based system, like adwords. You click where you want to be, instantly a variety of costed journey options are listed, each of which can include segments using anything from walking to taxis to public transport to international flights. Google takes it seriously as a product, because it generates revenue. Over time, the system allows new, cheaper, faster, more energy-efficient transport options develop, such as minibus-taxis, which pick up and drop multiple passengers whose routes coincide.

Well, it's nice to dream. I think that it will happen eventually, probably as an outgrowth of one of the taxi-based startups.

The HN title is misleading. According to the article, Google Maps hit a milestone of 1 million public transit stops, Google didn't recently add 1 million stops.

That's exactly what the title says. It doesn't say Google has one million more public transit stops.

Samuel_Michon was right. I fixed the title after he pointed it out.

Thanks!

I live in SF, and it's great to see the schedules on google maps, but the estimated time for arrival is off as of now.

Possibly because the last time SF public transportation was running on-time was in 1972.

So long OneBusAway....

Google has had Seattle bus schedules for years, and OneBusAway has tracking, not schedules. Schedules are useless.

I wouldn't say schedules are useless, they are actually pretty helpful to humans (e.g. the bus is scheduled for 5:13, but in rush hour that means it will probably be there closer to 5:20). Tracking is clearly more helpful if available, however.

As an aside, thanks to the GP for showing me OneBusAway, it's exactly what I've been looking for!

A bus 7 minutes late during rush hour, that's funny.

During rush hour, bus arrival times are randomly distributed between 7 minutes late and "so late that you could say the next bus was 1 minutes early" (Any later and you just can't prove whether the bus that arrived was 30 minutes late, or the previous bus was abducted by aliens)

Schedules are not useless, but they are alot easier. While alot of agencies are publishing their schedule information in GTFS, very few agencies are publishing their real-time information in the GTFS-realtime format.

It depends on the transit system. MUNI (San Francisco's transit system) buses are horribly off schedule during rush hours, to the point where if you rely on them, you often end up waiting longer than if you randomly show up at your stop. Tracking is really the only reliable method for this. Compare this to BART, where the trains are almost always on time, or within 1 minute of the schedule.

Specifically, Google Maps tells me that the 2 bus is arriving at 10:30AM. OneBusAway tells me that it's running 8 minutes late and will arrive at 10:38AM.

Schedules might be useless in Seattle, but the subway schedules in NYC are incredibly useful.

Keep in mind that you are not all the users in the world.

OneBusAway is a Seattle product. GP was posting about OneBusAway.

Keep in mind that you are not all the users in the world.

It would be nice if Google opened this up in some API, but having an API for this doesn't really align with their goals.

I believe there are also strict deals that don't let it share certain public transit directions with other companies. Not every transit agency tracking is public and wants their information publicly available for free. I think that's a bigger factor than not having it align to their goals.

By creating the GTFS file format and convincing dozens of municipalities to use it, they basically did create an API. Except the transit organizations are running it and Google's using it to draw people into their products.

This is not an API. An API would be a service that takes these feeds in, parses it, and makes it easily query able by different factors.

APIs are hard. You need to give it time.

As _delerium posted above, much of the data is publically available thanks to Google.

http://code.google.com/p/googletransitdatafeed/wiki/PublicFe...

We recently added support for transit directions in the Javascript API. So, if your site uses the Google Maps API, you can add directions to your existing map: https://developers.google.com/maps/documentation/javascript/...

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