Toyota has been way, way behind on electrification. I suspect they’ve been Innovator’s Dilemma’d are are in a death spiral that they haven’t even noticed yet
Prius is the world's highest selling Hybrid car, and it's been that for more than a decade now. This means Toyota has helped cut down emissions from consumer automobiles by a significant degree.
It's not the 1000 EVs out of the 100k vehicles that matter, but rather the 10k hybrid vehicles out of that same 100k pool, which literally produce double the MPG compared to ICE cars. It becomes obvious when we look at the total emissions generated by that pool of 100k cars.
If there's anyone to blame, I'd look at the luxury division - Mercedes, Audi and BMW (and also Genesis/Acura) - all late to the party, and still haven't been successful at meaningfully replacing the vehicles they would sell to their customers yet.
This is a very dope move. Glad to hear that
Combined mileage from many hybrid power trains is only ~10% better, and the technology inherently adds significant costs/complexity.
But there’s ~45 MPG all gas cars that have been built. Currently the best option is 39MPG combined, but that car’s aerodynamics aren’t great because hybrids can push that a little further for people who really want maximum MPG.
8% of new cars in the US, 14% in the EU, and 27% in China are EV’s. Toyota’s EV sales are anemic by comparison.
Sure, numerous EV startups will bite the dust, but the actual tech of putting a battery on wheels and spinning the wheels with motors isn't going anywhere.
Toyota has sold over 33,000 BZ4Xs in the U.S..
https://electrek.co/2025/01/03/toyota-bz4x-sales-finally-pic...
https://insideevs.com/news/755382/bz4x-solterra-sales-increa...
The Toyota hybrid engine is also rock solid and has been for more than a decade. They don't have a reason to abandon that right now when the industry is highly unstable and government funding for infrastructure that isn't Tesla's is being cut left and right.
It seems like hybrid sales are pretty comparable to EV sales in the U.S., at least according to this source anyway.
https://www.bts.gov/content/gasoline-hybrid-and-electric-veh...
...I would think this data is from vehicle registration data, and not sampled from owner surveys (or the like).
My sense is that plug-in hybrids really are the sweet spot for a lot of people in North America. The shorter full EV range is still well within most people's needs for a typical day's worth of driving, but you can still travel to and through rural areas without so much stress about whether you'll get stuck killing time for an hour or two at a slow charge station.
A few years ago this was true, but now that Tesla has opened up their network of chargers, your destination probably has to be >100 miles away from most interstate highways before road trip charging becomes much of an issue.
I can fill my tank and be back on the road in <5 minutes in most cases, and I only have to do that once every 350 miles.
With an EV, I would be stopping anywhere from 10-30minutes (depending on the kinds of chargers available) (assuming I don’t have to wait for one to open up), and I’d be doing it twice as often.
It adds a very meaningful amount of time to long car trips.
286 miles at 70 MPH
249 miles at 75 MPH
232 miles at 75 MPH with 2kW of heating
...that model seems to take about 45 minutes to charge from 10-80%:
https://evkx.net/models/ford/mustang_mach-e/mustang_mach-e_l...
Also when I do road trips, I'll tend to do multiple shorter stops which according to that link means I'm closer to the "optimum charging area" than going 10%-80% in one sitting, so that might have caused me to overshoot that estimate a little.
So beyond that slight amendment of switching that one ~30 minute charging stop to two ~15 minute stops, the answer to ketzo's question is "yes, really", but as the saying goes, your mileage may vary.
But charging for regular use is dramatically better. Anytime you're not on a road trip, you spend essentially no time fueling. Just plug in at night like you do with other electronics.
So I'll take saving 15 mins every week avoiding the gas station, in exchange for the couple times a year I have to wait an extra 15 mins charging.
On long road trips you get the fast re-energizing of a gas car.
For regular use if your plug in every night there is a good chance you can do most of your driving in EV mode. Current plug-in hybrids often have EV mode ranges of 40+ miles.
This is what someone I know with a RAV4 Prime reports. They plug in at night and it seems to mostly use the battery. It does sometime use the ICE but it is infrequently enough that they have only had to put more gas in every few months.
I don't think I have ever plugged into a supercharger more than 10/15 minutes.
That’s not nothing!
It wouldn't be the first time reality failed to live up to the promises of Tesla's marketing folks.
but the downside is maintenance of ICE engine and transmission and all consumables
IMO, EVs fit this use case just fine. There are plenty of chargers; it's not a big deal.
The battery pack is much smaller. A Prius PHEV is almost 500 lbs lighter than a Model 3 and only 100 lbs heavier than a normal hybrid Prius, which also has a battery pack. The MSRP is lower by almost $10k, which can cover a lot of maintenance before you resell it with less depreciation.
I never said "more expensive."
Hydrogen fuel cell is more about diversification, and it is fully backed by the Japan gov so ROI would be through the roof even if it doesn't "win".
Also many countries aren't producing enough electricity (cough Japan and Germanycough) so EVs getting popular _at scale_ isn't going to happen tomorrow either.
Right now there's a plant that is stopped by the gov from getting back into production for safety issues, with the elec company trying to appeal for the nth time, and it sure doesn't help the overall image.
"This time it will be fine" is kinda hard to stomach for the impacted public to be honest.
For Japan to be that good at nuclear, there first needs to be a way to gracefully fail and retry, instead of making whole regions unhabitable for a century. We're clearly not there yet.
Japan probably has the technology to deal with many of the downsides (additional sysmic risk, pollution, volcanic activity straight destroying the installation etc.) but it might not have the initial money nor a decent enough ROI to maintain the system.
I disagree. They backed hydrogen / fuel cells for most of the years others were developing bevs.
No worries for the folks who got free fuel with their car at first, but didn't seem sustainable (for a wallet).
For most of America, EV'S and the associated infrastructure aren't QUITE there yet.
Not noticed, because they're printing money with their hybrids that all have year-long waitlists in the US. Gas stations are alive and well, and until the housing crisis is fixed (not happening in our lifetime), people will be reliant on gas vehicles because you can't charge at most apartment complexes.
it is trivial to build and these minerals can be found everywhere
Yes, 'rare earths aren't rare,' and I hear that, and then I also hear that everyone is screwed if China won't sell theirs.
It can't be both. The key reasons I've heard for China owning this market are a) they have large deposits, b) they heavily invested for decades, and c) they aggressively dump and undercut in an anticompetitive fashion to ensure they keep the market cornered.
Seems like the only way out of this is to stop being religiously opposed to state subsidies in an industry of clear national security importance, combined with maybe a Herbert Dow-style jiu-jitsu move of countering any dumping by stockpiling and then re-selling the below-market product.
They’re Toyota. They can buy their way onto the winner’s table later.
Hopefully this won't happen.
There is zero chance the Japanese government would let that happen.
Wow, you’re more right than I thought. Ford is way higher than I would have thought too.
I do wish they’d make a plug in hybrid Sienna…
The salesman bluntly told me to get a Tesla and half heartedly tried to get me to look at a hybrid. I wouldn't have believed it if I wasn't there with a friend.
In retrospect, I am happier with my used Model 3 than an electric car from a company with no intent on winning the market.