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Comment by otterley | Hacker News Reader

> the quantities and material properties of the elements in question should have never, ever resulted in the response or charges that occurred.

This even though “The delivery of the materials – which included a quantity of plutonium, depleted uranium, lutetium, thorium and radium – led to a major hazmat incident in August 2023. The entire street that Lidden lived on was closed off and homes were evacuated” ?

It’s not like his activities had zero impact in his community. You don’t mess around with radioactive materials; even small amounts can be extremely hazardous to life and the environment. There’s a reason they’re not easy to obtain.

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>It’s not like his activities had zero impact in his community.

They didn't. The ridiculous and uninformed government reaction caused this. Nothing he did was even remotely dangerous.

>You don’t mess around with radioactive materials; even small amounts can be extremely hazardous to life and the environment.

These materials were not dangerous, it was literally a capsule from a smoke detector. As in, an average person would've had it in their house.

>There’s a reason they’re not easy to obtain.

Right, so difficult to obtain that he was able to simply order them online and have them delivered through the mail.

To be clear this was initially stopped at the border as the old smoke detector he ordered was clearly labelled "contains radioactive material".

The authorities decided they wanted to build a case rather than stop it there though so they allowed the delivery to proceed. So it was delivered by a courier without protection because they knew it was harmless. They then subsequently sent in a full hazmat crew to close off the street. Not because they had to, they just had the courier deliver it after all. They closed off the street because the drama would apparently help the prosecution build a case of how dangerous this is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0JGsSxBd2I

UPS erroneously delivered the Thorium sample, not the plutonium, which was ordered many months earlier without being intercepted.

The article says “the quantities of material were so small they were safe to eat”

If that’s true, the overreaction and evacuation is higher risk than possession of the elements

You can’t blame Lidden for the overreaction of others

> The article says “the quantities of material were so small they were safe to eat”

The question is did the authorities know that the materials were harmless in advance, or only after they acquired them?

They knew, or should have known. They knew exactly what he had bought and in what quantity, and anyone who knew anything about radioactive material would have concluded it was safe, or if they had doubts, they would have sent maybe two people to go knock on his door and ask to look around.

This was someone or a small group inside the border force who didn't have a clue what they were doing, cocked up, tried to make a big showy scene of things, and then scrambled to save face after the actual experts clued them in that a) what he had was safe and b) was 100% legal to own. (note that he was prosecuted for something that the border force allowed through years before the sample they erroneously thought was a problem, and that was not illegal to own, only illegal under a very twisted interpretation of an obscure law to import).

Also, the question shouldn't be "Did they know it was harmless?" It should be "Did they know it was harmful?" You don't initiate a huge hazmat incident, close off homes and evacuate people just because "you're not sure it was harmless." You do that when you know it's harmful.

You have an overly optimistic opinion of the police.

They did know. It was well labelled and initially stopped at customs.

They asked the ordinary courier (without hazmat gear) to deliver it in person to help build a stronger case.

Details: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0JGsSxBd2I

The hazmat crew was literally manufactured drama for a prosecutor (who somehow continues not to be named in this ridiculous case) to build a better case.

Here you go:

Sally Dowling SC - Director of Public Prosecutions New South Whales

Frank Veltro SC - Deputy Director of Public Prosecutions New South Whales

Helen Roberts SC - Deputy Director of Public Prosecutions New South Whales

Ken McKay SC BAB - Senior Crown Prosecutor New South Whales

Craig Hyland - Solicitor for Public Prosecutions New South Whales

Anne Whitehead - Deputy Solicitor for Public Prosecutions (Legal) New South Whales

Esther Kwiet - Deputy Solicitor for Public Prosecutions (Legal Operations) - New South Whales

Natalie Weekes - Deputy Solicitor for Public Prosecutions (Operations) New South Whales

Deborah Hocking - Deputy Solicitor for Public Prosecutions (Operations) New South Whales

Joanna Croker - Deputy Solicitor for Public Prosecutions (Operations) New South Whales

https://www.odpp.nsw.gov.au/about-us/leadership-team

The current head of Fire and Rescue NSW is Jeremy Fewtrell.

https://www.fire.nsw.gov.au/page.php?id=135

They stopped it at the border, then let an ordinary courier deliver it. Either they knew it's harmless or they're intentionally criminally negligent.

That was a severe overreaction by authorities after they knew he had it for months in trace amounts.

What impact?

The impact of the Australian Border Force overreacting after they (seemingly deliberately) bungled the situation when they were first made aware of the situation?

None of the elements this man was in possession of were either in a quantity or quality to facilitate any kind of hazard to anyone. The response by government was unjustified, and should have ocurred before the materials ever reached the purchaser.

I urge you to learn about and understand the properties of radioactive materials before making judgement on this situation. The quantities and properties (particularly the encasing) of the materials in question largely render them inert. These specimens are not at all abnormal in the scope of element collection, and the response triggered by the ABF (complete evacuation of an entire street (note, not an entire radius???)) is unwarranted given the quantitites and properties of the elements (both pieces of information they knew beforehand).

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