Samsung copied Xcode? | Hacker News Reader

Samsung copied Xcode?

forums.macrumors.com

50 pointscoloneltcb60 comments

Open articleView on HN

Edit: As I said, it's not even Java: http://www.imaso.co.kr/data/article/15%283%29.png

<Edit2>

Apparently it's made by Samsung. I see some Samsung logo on this website:

http://www.imaso.co.kr/?doc=bbs/gnuboard.php&bo_table=ar... From what I understand it's a SDK for Samsung Smart TV's

http://www.imaso.co.kr/data/article/17(2).png

</Edit2>

>Some probably shooped image with a small resolution

>Some asian language

>No proof it's made by Samsung

>2 lines of description posted in a in a mac forum

This sounds totally legit.

I want to remind you guys of the current top post at the front page: http://day4.se/how-we-screwed-almost-the-whole-apple-communi...

Don't believe everything. We do not even know if Samsung made it or if it has anything to do with android.

If you look at one of the first sentences:

    I present you the development environment for Samsung's smart TVs.

I don't know why you're looking for Java/Android clues.

Legit hi-res screenshot!

I agree with all your points. It's definitely a lookalike copy of XCode, but there's no proof that it's made by Samsung nor that it's used for Smart TV.

All I can see from it is that it's some-sort of a JavaScript/HTML5? IDE.

I had to build a couple of Samsung TV apps, and that indeed looks like their IDE. It's Javascript (you can use HTML or Flash). Not much of a threat to Apple though, it is the worst platform I have ever developed for.

Try it for yourself: http://www.samsungdforum.com/

Or maybe they cloned Visual Studio. Or Flash Builder. Or whatever. All of the IDEs with a design surface are largely the same.

Seriously- this is an IDE for televisions.

Agreed. Qt Designer used to look pretty much the same as well.

Actually, I don't know why this court nonsense is still making the news.

Just went all the previous QT Designer screenshots in Google Images. And not a single one looks similar to either Xcode or the Samsung IDE.

And the court nonsense is still news because the case isn't over yet and this is demonstrating a pattern of copying by Samsung.

Let me help you out then.

QT Designer: http://www.cppblog.com/images/cppblog_com/lai3d/qt-designer.... Samsung: http://i50.tinypic.com/suu26w.jpg

I still think there's too much attention being given to this trial by tech people. Much more than it deserves.

If you've used Xcode before, you'll recognize things they copied that are not the norm in other IDEs. The object library, IB screen, the layout buttons on the toolbar (the entire toolbar, really). Sure, it's just an IDE, but heck if it doesn't look strikingly similar to Xcode.

edit: cmelbye in this thread has a good comparison: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4378379

Other than the placement (but not iconography: those come straight from the 1980's VCR) of the Start/Stop buttons, I'm actually not quite sure that I see much. Can you elaborate? What's an "IB screen" (if it's the visual layout thing, I gotta say you're off by about 15 years trying to attribute that to Apple).

But fair enough: let's say they cloned it. Now what? What corrective action should be taken? What if Eclipse did the same thing (as, of course, Eclipse basically did to VC++)?

You're trying to make some kind of moral point, so it would help your case if you spelled it out.

I'll spell out my position: cloning a UI is fine. There is a long history of this in the technology industry, and we're all richer for it. Condemning someone for cloning your favorite candy maker's recipe is nothing but base fanboism, and hurtful to all of us.

You are clearly the kind of unimaginative person Samsung is out to hire!

Oh, Interface Builder 1986.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interface_Builder

Come on, you were going well until you threw around the fanboism argument.

But I'll bite: I do not think cloning a UI is fine. I think drawing inspiration from a UI is fine, because indeed, any new thing stands on the shoulders of what came before it. But actually cloning a UI (your words, cited) is making a clone, a copy, whose result is certainly not evolution or innovation. You're making a facsimile, doing no real creative work (or innovative work) to cut corners.

To me, this is less about it being Samsung and Apple, but about cutting corners in a blatant way. It's dumb, it's misguided, and these guys should know better. Just as you shouldn't ever say that cloning a UI is fine.

For comparison...

Samsung's IDE: http://www.imaso.co.kr/data/article/15%283%29.png

Xcode: http://cl.ly/Ijas

Of course, as Samsung apologists will tell you, this was a pure accident on Samsung's part. Everyone knows there's only one way to design an IDE. Anyone designing one will eventually end up with a carbon-copy of Xcode.

As someone who has extensively used Xcode, I can assure you it's not a "carbon copy".

And hey, here's a screenshot of Visual Basic: http://i.msdn.microsoft.com/dynimg/IC158544.gif

If you think Visual Basic looks anything like Xcode, you're either detail-blind, or you've never used Xcode.

You can't be serious. Have you ever used Visual Basic? If you have, you'd know that it's toolbox, properties editor, etc. is nothing like Xcode's...

Garbage. Alert, alert, developer modifies his IDE to be cross-platform familiar and become more productive!

    A few minutes ago I snapped this screenshot of what
    the official downloadable TV SDK looked like
    (the Samsung IDE version; not the Eclipse version):

http://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=3526... [0]

[0] http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=15447288&post...

There are a few similarities, but really a lot of these features that any capable IDE should have

Features are one thing - yes, nearly all IDEs have lots of the same features. But that looks like they copied XCode 4's appearance directly. It's a pity the screenshots are so low resolution - hopefully some higher resolution shots of the Samsung software will turn up.

But even in this example it's easy to spot lifted design elements:

* The centered tab selector buttons in the title bar of each pane

* The overall styling of the widget pallet, including the round-rect selection

* The arrangement of the primary toolbar and its assorted option buttons, which clearly mimics XCode.

* The colors and gradients

A screenshot of Eclipse that I grabbed off Google Images: http://img.brothersoft.com/screenshots/softimage/e/eclipse_i...

I don't use a lot of IDEs, but I honestly can't see any substantial distinctions between any of the three. (And no, I don't consider centering a pane a distinction.)

They both look a lot like Visual Studio to me.

Eclipse is entirely different - it's not about similiar layout. Look closely at right pane both in Xcode and in Samsung IDE. Object library and inspector look VERY similiar.

Oh, come on.

http://i.imgur.com/8uL8M.png vs http://cl.ly/IjBC

http://i.imgur.com/2Kn4j.png vs http://cl.ly/Iiob

http://i.imgur.com/RYYv9.png vs http://cl.ly/IiWX

We're not talking similar features here, we're talking lazy carbon-copied user interfaces. You honestly think this was accidental and there's only one way to make an IDE?

EDIT: A few more, now that we have a hi-res screenshot.

http://i.imgur.com/SYSv2.png vs http://cl.ly/IjUP

http://i.imgur.com/2nmUn.png vs http://i.imgur.com/4NFV6.png

http://i.imgur.com/HJ9s4.png vs http://i.imgur.com/qgpWc.png (that bar above "Scheme" is, you guessed it, a drop down)

You honestly think this was accidental and there's only one way to make an IDE?

I honestly don't know. I don't use any IDE on a regular basis.

Judging by the relative quality of your screenshots, you use XCode -- is it possible that you'd be able to point out such similarities between any two IDEs, given the presumption that one IDE must be copying from another due to a current lawsuit?

> is it possible that you'd be able to point out such similarities between any two IDEs

Not down to the level of design elements that appear to have been copied here. As someone who does use XCode, Visual Studio, IntelliJ, and PyCharm all on a regular basis, I can tell you that they all look very distinct visually. They all have pretty much the same feature set, but they're absolutely distinguishable at a glance visually. It is definitely not inevitable that IDEs look the same.

Interestingly, the Samsung IDE is a Windows application. The standard practice would be to match the look and feel of the native platform the IDE runs on, but that is clearly not the case here.

"is it possible that you'd be able to point out such similarities between any two IDEs"

Most IDEs (Delphi, Eclipse, VS, VB) look a lot like VS & VB. That seems to be the template most often.

Xcode, having roots at NeXT, has always been a bit different, UI-wise. It has similar functions, presented in different ways, sometimes significantly different.

But the scrollbars and widgets are not even similar, neither are the fonts, the color pickers or anything worth talking about... The only similarity seems to be blue-grayish tones, and possibly gradients (although the jpgs of the Samsung IDE are too blurry to really tell).

Surely you're not talking about the drag and drop grid either, which was around years before Apple even made IDEs.

There are plenty of lazy carbon-copied Mac themes for Windows and whatnot, this isn't even close, it's just yet another IDE with color tones that are vaguely similar to XCode (maybe ? how many windows apps aren't gray/blue these days ?).

You're missing the forest for the trees.

Or maybe it's you missing the trees for the grass leaves? Seriously though, most IDEs (and CAD and graphic design packages for that matter) have looked very similar to those screenshots. Fuck, if we were to 'condem' every other IDE in windows using the same icon set and toolbox/tabset styles as Visual Studio, then most of them are 'carbon copies' (let's forget for a minute most of those IDEs use the OS-provided controls.)

This is really starting to sound like nitpicking by some Apple fanboys. The fact this even makes it to Hacker News kind of pisses me off.

IMO, I don't think any of your "vs" go beyond normal "similar features" of any IDE... certainly nowhere near "carbon-copied". They don't even share the same icon set or rounded-ness. If I were a juror and I was given those as evidence, I would vote "not guilty".

Is there another IDE other than Xcode whose widget palette shows an icon and a lengthy textual description like that?

Dunno. But if that is all you got... I still say not guilty. While those two are similar... they are not the same. The icons, the fonts, the colors... pretty much everything about the look and feel is different except they both use an icon and a detailed description... in that one small portion of the whole IDE. Similar? a little. Carbon-copied? not even close. not guilty.

Those... really don't look as close as you seem to think. Certainly not carbon copies.

And que the return of the look feel wars of the early 90s.

Which is a silly thing to copy. Visual studio has a different color scheme than XCode, and both have different color schemes than Eclipse.

The iconography is similar(i.e. use of a "play" button for running the debugger), but the actual buttons are definitely different between XCode, VS, and Eclipse. XCode uses the iTunes-like circular black triangle on a grey circle button. VS uses a green triangle. Eclipse uses a green circle with a white arrow.

I don't think anyone would care about this, if Samsung didn't seem to have a compulsion to copy so many Apple designs.

Copying Xcode's UI is not, in itself, a huge issue. But along with all the rest, it just looks rather shabby.

I cannot see a clear evidence to support the claim (that "samsung copied Xcode"). If you can reach that claim from the screenshot, you can make the same claim for netbeans, eclipse, intellJ,...etc (as the author admits him/herself, any capable IDE looks similar).

If the claim is on the icon design along, the claim could stand stronger; but I guess it's not "catchy" enough to claim "Samsung copied XCode's icon design".

Why don't people make such claims on open-source projects? Is it because open-source project has no money for other people to sue off?

Next pundits will say even MATLAB copied Xcode...

No, I'm pretty sure Samsung did not explicitly copy Xcode there. Although it's a pretty stupid move to create their own IDE in my opinion. I think the standard these days is to build on top of Eclipse.

What's with a lot of fanboism posts lately??? Heck the linked post doesn't even offer a clear picture of either of the IDE's. IDE's often look similar and its no secret. This is because developers often have to use different IDEs for different tasks and relearning a drastically different IDE is just a waste of time and resource. If I have to be in OP's shoes, I would find even Xcode to be a direct clone of Visual Basic's IDE!!!

About every IDE that support dockable panels can be customized to look like this. They can also be reorganized to look entirely different.

Quick, find the patent for dockable panels and sue everyone!

Well, since you mention it.. this happened back in 2000 when Adobe sued Macromedia over "copied" IDE elements (before eventually buying them out..).

http://www.pcworld.com/article/18000/adobe_sues_macromedia.h...

Xcode's panels aren't movable, like Visual Studio's are. There are panels that appear in certain places, and can be hidden, and their sizes adjusted. But it's not like VS where you can grab something tear it off, stick it on the other side of the window, etc.

And I haven't seen any pictures that suggest Samsung's IDE has any configuration other than one that mimics Xcode's appearance.

But it's more than just the arrangement of functional areas. It's the appearance of the functional areas. The widget palette looks just like Xcode's, with icons on the left and lengthy descriptive text. That's different from the inspector on Delphi/VS, where there's a dynamic list of attributes for the selected UI widget in the UI editor, and each attribute that is editable has a place to edit it.

It is really sad to see Samsung throw away any brand capital it had as an innovative company. People respect you trying to innovate even if it might not be the best solution. People want to associate themselves with innovators.

Disappointing.

This is Samsung's raison d'être.

They've been doing this with the Japanese companies (Sony, Panasonic, Sharp) for years now and have now set their sights on Apple.

It's a bad reflection on South Korea itself as between Samsung, Hyundai and the cultural copying they have the reputation as wannabe Japanese. Which is a real shame as it is a wonderful country with plenty of home grown talent.

Funny, I have seen this forum layout somewhere...OMG! Macrumours has copied PhpBB!!

Hey Samsung!

Why don't you guys get rid of those copy machines and hire some talented people?

I'm sure that would be a lot cheaper that what you'll have to pay for Apple. ;-)

Man, XCode looks a lot like Eclipse.

I take it you've never used XCode or Eclipse. If you did you would know that they are world's apart as far as IDEs are concerned.

Actually, used both quite a bit. But the UI and project layout (the subject of this post) are very similar, as they are with most IDEs.

Case in point: http://ostatic.com/files/images/JUnit-[2].png

Samsung is clearly addicted to copying Apple. And I say that as someone who doesn't like Apple.

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4353925

Indeed there's a Samsung IDE:

http://www.samsungdforum.com/Devtools/Sdkdownload

(they offer SDK Download for Eclipse, and SDK Download for Samsung IDE).

I haven't downloaded it but I'm assuming it's the one in the screenshot.

The amount of detail-blindness I'm seeing here is astounding.

No wonder so many UIs are terrible.

I think this is just a prank.

I think if there were patents in relation to Xcode Apple Legal would have acted on it. If the UI layout isn't patented then is there really an issue?

Honestly, I saw that and thought visual studio. The example code colors are very visual studio like.

Enough is enough.

Samsung: I'm willing to go to all thermonucular over this.

Silly apple fanboys :/

It's funny that there are a lot of people who think doing the below is okay, but copying some GUI elements is not.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-p5akC0fNzZQ/Tfdnlsy7e0I/AAAAAAAAAY...

I don't think that's OK - carbon copying Windows95 is just sad :)

Who specifically are you referring to? I haven't seen anyone endorse ReactOS yet at the same time vilify Samsung.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com