Google to buy Frommer's | Hacker News Reader

Google to buy Frommer's

online.wsj.com

76 pointsrryan31 comments

Having ran a travel directory site for a bit I'm always interested in Google's ambitions in the space. I still haven't completely understood why Google bought Zagat, and now Frommer's is a bit odd as well. My theories -

1) Small business relationships - well established relationships with long-established small businesses that may never have tried advertising online. Every listing is a potential new Adwords customer. I know someone who worked with Zagat and the 1st thing they did was swap out the ad network, so I'd say this is reason #1. These guys have very trusting and loyal ad partners

2) Brand recognition and perception of quality control in consumer listings.

3) Databases - its really hard to get a complete database of small business info from foreign countries. Googlebot is just never going to as good of a job cleaning up this content as a decent editorial staff. These guys have been intricately compiling and updating DBs of eateries and attractions for decades.

4) The guidebooks - I doubt the revenue from selling paper guidebooks means much to Google, but it might be a lesson in selling digital content, who knows

5) They acquired them both for a steal. A bunch of editors working for peanuts, content and new adwords customers scooped up at a fire sale.

Google paid 151M for Zagat - is that considered cheap? Would be surprised if the Frommer's price was even half that. http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking-news/ci_21301531/google-...

When you think that Zagat - a world renowned service for restaurant ratings for over 30 years - was purchased for about 15% of what Instagram cost, I would say it's cheap.

I know new whiz-bang startups can generate a lot of cash (if they are lucky), but it always surprises me how low the valuation of old guard companies can be.

Comparing to Instagram, which even its defenders admit is an outlier, is poor choice.

> I still haven't completely understood why Google bought Zagat, and now Frommer's is a bit odd as well...

2) Brand recognition and perception of quality control in consumer listings.

Speaking as a consumer, I'd say that both are highly respected brands.

Google buys Zagat HN discussion, from Sept last year:

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2974271

When I planned a trip to Spain, I use the Frommers 3 days guide in Madrid to plan activities.

http://www.frommers.com/destinations/madrid/0056020791.html

I then used Google Maps and created a custom map with all the suggested sites, activities, and eateries. I was also able to share it with my friends and collaborate over it.

I think this is a great opportunity for Google to streamline all this and make another great product.

I've do the the same thing for my trips and think it's great. If Google could integrate the travel guide content with the "view offline" feature in GMaps it would reduce the need for roaming too.

I haven't looked at any in a very long time, but I recall Frommer's guidebooks as having the feel of McDonald's, relative to say Lonely Planet.

I'm eager for the Wikimedia Travel project to get underway https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Travel_Guide

What about http://wikitravel.org ?

Depends on the location. For example, wikitravel is much better for Tokyo or Kyoto than the modern version of the Frommer's or Lonely Planet guidebooks. Having recently been, the Frommer's and LP ones read more like a coffee table book for people who want to visit and list everything they'd see rather than actually figure out what to go to and how to get between them.

Assuming the Wikimedia Travel project gets off the ground, Wikitravel and its forks, or at least the material and active users and admins of these, will migrate to the new project.

Wikitravel is pretty good, but uneven depth of coverage. I usually read at least the main Wikipedia article and Wikitravel article about places I'm going to, and web search and sites like Yelp for details. Together this is a huge improvement over guidebooks. With more attention that a Wikimedia travel site would get, I'd expect even more/better for the types of things I look at Wikitravel for now, probably meaning I'd need to search/yelp/etc just a bit less.

(Of course most people would get to Wikimedia Travel via Google, and they could use WT content, so it'd be a win for Google just like Wikipedia, even if it made their purchase of Frommer's worth less.)

I have fond memories from Frommer's... but I last read one of their guidebooks in the 80's (Europe on 30 dollars a day).

So the brand still holds some value (in mindshare, in U$S it's whatever Google paid :) ), and they're right in that all of my investigation is online these days.

In my experience full-fledged country guides from Lonely Planet are more thorough, detailed and informative. In the area of region-specific (say, Provence in France) and mini-pocket guides with pocket maps Frommer has much more presence and their guides are very good.

I am as avid user of smartphones and tablets as any other HN user, but there are many places in the world where you certainly do not want to pull gadgets out of the bag or pocket.

> I am as avid user of smartphones and tablets as any other HN user, but there are many places in the world where you certainly do not want to pull gadgets out of the bag or pocket.

Single-purpose travel PDAs for rent in such parts of the world might be of some use. Have them optimized for the travel guide function, and make them hard to jailbreak and susceptible to bricking when jailbreaking. It may be possible to make them unattractive to steal. (You can steal them, but no one particularly wants to buy them.)

use a book.

There's functionality available on a tablet that's not there in a book. Much more timely updates to local events, for one thing. Google Maps for transit information, possibly dispatch of taxis in parts of the world that haven't thought of regulating that yet.

Considering the number of people who bought netbooks for the purpose of having a "disposable" computing device for travel, there may be a rental market for a travel tablet.

I find the Lonely Planet guidebooks are targeted at a very specific sort of traveler (one that is younger and cooler). I wouldn't necessarily recommend it for my parents.

I think that's about right although Lonely Planet is more "mainstream" than it once was. Arguably, Rough Guides try to be the way Lonely Planet was a few years back. Frommer and Fodor are more limited to the more standard tourist attractions, restaurants, and hotels.

I'd speculate that, just as with the Zagat purchase, they were singularly interested in a brand with recognition in those 40 years and older.

(Maybe since they are seeing the Google brand erode in quality and value to those under 40...)

Do the Frommer's and Zagat brands mean anything to those under 40? My instinct is that they probably don't.

I'm in my late twenties and I know both brands though I had almost zero interaction with Zagat in any purposeful sort of way. I never sought out a list of Zagat rated restaurants. I did use Frommer's for trip planning though often it was browsing in the bookstore or library rather than purchasing.

Interesting, though not entirely surprising. I'd surmise that your usage is representative the maximum utility for most people under 40.

Did you seek them out or did you discover them incidentally while in the respective "Travel" sections?

I'm in my early 20s, and I have heard of (and respect) Zagat. I'd never heard of Frommer's until this story broke.

Vertical integration. Those who own content distribution (I.e. search) buy up the content. This solidifies / extends their unique ability to deliver relevant content.

A good analogy would be Comcast buying NBC. Of course google is at a higher scale than any previous distributor, so they can easily buy up lots of small but very valuable comtent producers.

Scary.

I wonder how this will affect Microsoft's Win 8 travel app, which seems to be using exclusively Frommer's content.

Frommer's has a rich licensing program. MS is only one of their partners. You can see how prominently their content is displayed in the NY Times travel section. http://travel.nytimes.com/travel/guides/europe/britain/engla... I know there are many others, but they are escaping me at the moment.

I'm guessing many here don't know this, but travel agents today (yes they still exist) often recommend Frommer's guides.

I run KangaCruise.com, we considered syndicating Frommer's guides for destinations, and actually still haven't written it off.

"Google paid around $25 million for Frommer's, according to a person briefed on the deal, which hasn't yet closed. But the deal is more significant for its strategy than its price tag." http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000087239639044477240457758...

Awesome, can't wait to see integration into google maps / location based services.

this should help Google's antitrust battle.

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