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Comment by cedilla | Hacker News Reader

The dark forest theory makes for a great book premise, but it probably doesn't apply in real life simply because the distances are so far.

The universe is not a forest. It's a gigantic, empty ocean. The next, dangerous tribe is not lurking behind a bush 2 meters away, but is sitting on an island that's so far away it will take centuries to go there, if it is possible at all

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Isn't that the point of the dark forest theory? It's not the fact that there is a dangerous tribe behind a bush it's more that you don't know if they're dangerous or not so you have to err on the side of caution - because you don't know if they're doing the same.

It's the whole chain of suspicion theory that it's safer to shoot first and then ask questions later because the speed you can communicate is the same speed you can mount an attack.

Yes, but the next bush is dozens of light years away. The analogy breaks down because the distances are different in quality.

The only reason why this becomes such a problem in the Three-Body-Problem is the existence of magic in that universe. Thinking protons, instant communication, folded dimensions, easy interstellar travel, it's all interesting speculation inspired by physics, but incompatible with our actual universe.

Those things are just sci-fi glitter absence of which doesn’t invalidate the theory.

Why does the distance change the dynamic? So what if the species trying to exterminate you are 500 light years away, you think they should ignore it ? Maximum travel speed of an extermination weapon in 100,000 years of of science may very much be impressive or even magical by today’s standards

The distance completely changes the dynamic. If I tell you there's a crazy axe murderer in your house, you should be afraid. If I tell you there's a crazy axe murderer on Venus, how afraid are you?

And unless we are completely wrong about physics, the maximum speed of a weapon will be the same as it today - very close to 1c.

How do you know it's incompatible with the actual universe instead of our current understanding of the universe?

Take us for example, we're communicating instantly (for practical purposes) using thinking machines - how would that not seem like magic to someone thousands of years ago?

My point is, we don't know what the tribe have behind the bush. It's the equivalent of the Mayans wondering what's over that hill and then finding the Spanish with gunpowder, horses, and steel armour.

The only reason why we can't out sentient protons folded out of 28 microdimensions into our 3 macrodimensions is the same reason we can't rule out that our universe is actually the works of a giant hand puppet player called Zquaarx.

The problem is just - if any of what happens in 3BP was to actually happen, we would not have to be a little wrong (like Newton was in regard to celestial mechanics) but so wrong that it doesn't even make sense to apply what we know at all.

This is, by the way, the exact point of the first part of the first book: physicists discover that all off the known physics are completely wrong.

Time does not matter. Space-faring civilizations can adapt their pace of life to the communication and exploration speeds or even live at multiple speeds. They are likely energy and resource-bound: within the same theory Dyson sphere is a risk, so they can only consume a fraction of locally available energy to remain unnoticed - meaning that it’s not the distance but energy consumption that will limit them.

Of course, the risk is, thinking that centuries is a long time may be merely a human, and not a universal, trait.

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