Federal Government's letter to Harvard demanding changes [pdf]
harvard.edu
harvard.edu
How so? To which law or case precedent?
You also have to prove that the party acted with malice: either the policy exists for explicitly racist reasons, or the race-neutral justification is pretextual. If you can do that, you _also_ have to prove that there is a less-discriminatory alternative policy that achieves the same goal.
see, e.g., https://www.justice.gov/crt/fcs/T6Manual7#C'
It is definitely not de facto illegal to have a racially lopsided student body -- the school might be asked to justify the specific policy or practice that led to that outcome on race-neutral grounds, but saying "GPA and test scores" would be more than enough.
Title VI gives agencies authority to enforce Title VI, and many of those agencies added in disparate impact language into their own enforcement language (I think under the Obama administration, but I might be wrong about that).
Any source at all here for your claim would be nice.
> So, they've always been faced with the problem of needing to either discriminate to get the numbers to match, or not discriminating and risking the numbers falling out of line.
Not disagreeing with your larger point, but this sounds wrong (in a sense that, I don’t think that’s the case).
If what you claim was the case, how has CalTech been managing to have such a large percentage of Asian undergrad students (44% according to their Fall 2024-2025 enrollment data[0], with numbers from previous years not straying that far off either) without ever even a hint of getting in trouble over it (given that Asian people make up roughly 7% of the US population)?
I am sure there are similar examples of other schools, this was just the first major known one that came to my mind. Perchance you are correct, and there is simply something special that CalTech has (and Harvard doesn’t) that lets them not worry about this. But that seems unlikely.
0. https://registrar.caltech.edu/records/enrollment-statistics
The Trump administration mid level staffing decisions are something like 70%+ white men! This seems laughable. Controversial maybe, certainly not "illegal" or they wouldn't have done it.
And that "entire point" is historically incorrect in the United States. There is a long, long, LONG history of the Department of Justice investigating and prosecuting members of the administration that technically runs it.
That your point seems to be correct now, in the most corrupt administration of the modern era, is something that is notable and worth discussing. It's certainly not something to sweep under the rug with a both-sides-ist dismissal.
(It's also tautological: I mean, of course they wanted to prosecute them. They were criminals and prosecutors prosecute criminals, definitionally!)
(And also also, it's an Occam's violation: the simpler explanation is that they were just treated like criminals and not that they were double-negative enforcement actions by a corrupt regime.)
And even when cases are brought, the DoJ needs to defend them. See a number of cases that were very far along in the court system that the Biden administration was pursuing, that the Trump DoJ just quit defending. They simply no longer have a lawyer, and functionally cannot proceed.
I do not see that here for the current admins demands for diversity.
However, left of any kind is not part of diversity. No one arguing for Palestine, no one arguing for equality. I was tempted to say "no communists" but those kind of don't matter.
What if admissions is actually a cyborg alien race??? I am just asking questions!
Having the government dictate University level programs is bad, we should all agree to let Universities and colleges run themselves.
Moreover, the actual interpretation of most proponents of diversity is very much that we desire a diversity of views, which it wants to get through getting a diversity of backgrounds. That is, of course, not the only reason behind DEI. There is also the fact that it is fair to allow people of all backgrounds the same opportunity.
>Diversity refers to the presence of variety within the organizational workforce in characteristics such as race, gender, ethnicity, sexual orientation, disability, age, culture, class, veteran status, or religion.
Brittanica[2] says
>Diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI) programs—meant to address historical and systemic disparities based on race, gender, age, ability, and sexual orientation in the workplace
CNN lists the following as examples of the title of this article[3] ("DEI programs benefit many groups, not just Black and brown communities"):
>White women
>LGBTQ+ people
>Families who need IVF
>Disabled people
>Veterans
This is the first three links I clicked on, so it seems to be broadly agreed upon. It's (obviously) not an exhaustive search of the literature, and I'd love to see your side of it.
I have heard ideological diversity used as a defense of DEI, but it doesn't seem to be central. I've never heard of a DEI push to get more conservatives in tech or academia, for example.
[1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diversity,_equity,_and_inclusi...
[2]https://www.britannica.com/topic/diversity-equity-and-inclus...
[3]https://www.cnn.com/2025/02/08/us/dei-programs-diversity-lis...
You get different viewpoints by having people with different sets of experience.
Differing gender, race, and socioeconomic backgrounds are drivers of different experiences, and therefore viewpoints. You can't easily measure "did this company hire different experiences", but you can easily measure "did this company hire a bunch of different genders, races, etc", which doesn't guarantee differing viewpoints in individuals, but does strongly suggest it in aggregate/at the statistical level.
I suppose next you'll tell me that either you don't understand it so it shouldn't be done or that because it's hard people should give up.
This cultural uniformity of the left you speak of. What's it like? I mean, the right drives big trucks and puts American flags on everything and eats a lot of meat and is really enamored of loyalty and the military and the atomic family.
So what's it like for the left? Because as far as I can tell, the only element of uniformity among the left is that they agree that they shouldn't enable things that are a threat to their safety. The argument towards wokeness is pretty strong: if you're not aware of a threat, it might hurt you, so you should stay vigilant. That's not cultural uniformity, that's survival. Sure, many have run with it in a variety of weird directions, but there's no agreement on the left that those directions are good ones. It's precisely because the left isn't a monoculture that those elements are allowed to persist.
For further evidence that the left permits dissent among their ranks, note that they kind of suck at getting anything done because they're always debating each other about how it ought to be done and not doing it. Meanwhile it's the right that falls uniformly in line and goes off to do something that was poorly thought out (but hey at least they did something).
And taking this back to the article, it's precisely because the right can't tolerate disagreement that it wants to cancel academia and create a safe space where it doesn't have hear the truth about the consequences of its terrible policies. This is literally a letter about the Right cancelling something to enforce ideological uniformity.
Only, amusingly, to people one particular point of view. No, that's ridiculous. There is no woker impulse than listening carefully and respectfully to all points of view.
That the current administration is also purging viewpoints it doesn't like, adopting the same authoritarian mindset, but having it enforced by the government (which is worse, IMO), that goes to show horseshoe theory is true.
Just going to point out that this is absolutely not the same thing as rescinding research grants using some lazy grepping of abstracts like the absolute clown show going on now.
> horseshoe theory is true.
Had to look this one up. Apparently the "far left" and "far right" are somehow the exact things we are dealing with here and now.
Nope, sorry. Not equivalent. Not at all.
I kind of hope they go through with this just for the comedy. If students and staff have to fill out some kind of viewpoint survey, the only rational strategy is for them to randomize their answers to minimize the chance of being in the group that gets told “sorry, we have too many of your type this year”.
Also, the hermeneutics used for interpreting literature on the fringes in the 1980s are now mainstream -- students aren't learning the methods of interpretation used everywhere in the west up until the turn of the century.
Don't ever forget that the left cant clearly articulate what a woman is without resorting to circular reasoning.
For starters, the current right-wing hate campaign is targeting transgender people, not transvestites since the latter simply means people who wear clothing associated with the opposite gender, which is quite common in right-wing circles.
Aside from that silliness, let's highlight the "specific, thoughtful, data driven, evidence based rhetoric" that is "not hurting the feelings of a group of people", as if "hurt feelings" were all that has happened.
Also, hurt feelings matter. Humans are our feelings. They're who we are and what we are. People be hurt in a large variety of ways and they're all bad. It's trivial to demonstrate that non-fatal gash on your body is considerably less worse than being, say, ostracized and outcast from the community you grew up in.
On a related note, why is "the right" so obsessed with defining what a woman is? What are the data driven and evidence based rhetorical reasons for coming up with a rigorous and definitive definition of woman?
The idea that evidence or logic is involved in any of this is laughable.
Edit: Nobody can come up with a good definition for what a planet it is either, but somehow we manage to stagger onwards.
Female only categories are always going to be a compromise, their literal existence is defined by excluding people from being able to participate. So you have to draw the line somewhere and say "this person is allowed and this person isn't". I'm sorry it's not as easy as just asking if someone has a uterus or something but just because things are tricky is no excuse to give up.
And frankly, this whole argument is incredibly disingenuous. You didn't give a damn about the sanctity of women's sports 5 years ago and when the right finds a new minority to demonize, you'll happily forget all about them.
There's a word for this, mote and bailey fallacy? The advanced premise is that we should discriminate and hate transgender people and then when challenged you fall back to something something women's sports.
Are women's sports good? Sure, we should support them. Is that worth demonizing a minority and blaming them for society's ills? I hope not. There's like 5 transgender people PER STATE competing in female only sports and 99% of the time they aren't even winning. It really doesn't affect you or anyone else.
But because of this "issue" that people like you keep repeating, people are trying to pass laws that require genital inspectors for our child athletes. Think about that for a second. What exactly are we trying to accomplish here?
According to the research conducted for her report, the failure of governing bodies to exclude males from women's competitions has so far led to more than 600 female athletes losing out of 890 medals in 29 different sports - and this is likely to be a considerable underestimate.
Another adverse effect of male inclusion is that some female athletes, seeing the unfairness of this, will choose not to compete at all. Others will be displaced from qualifying for competition. By including males, governing bodies are excluding female athletes from what should be their own category.
The oft-repeated claim that it's just conservatives bringing up this issue is a false narrative, as is the incorrect assumption that this is being driven by "hate". Many people who have been speaking out on this - whether they're athletes themselves, UN officials, feminist activists, or simply just care about the wellbeing of women and girls - are doing so because they see the inherent unfairness and safety risks this imposes upon female athletes.
Here's a snippet from the first few pages:
> Women and girls in sport, including female sports officials, are vulnerable to physical violence.5 When eligibility norms are deliberately violated and when the risk of injury to athletes is knowingly increased, the physical harms sustained can be characterized as “violence”.6
"The risk of injury is increased [...] can be characterized as violence". Really. People getting hurt in a sport is now violence against women. Ok.
But hey, they cited a source to back up this claim! It's got a footnote and everything! Let's check it out:
> 6 Submission by Independent Council on Women’s Sports
Well, that's pretty vague. I'm not an expert in reading academic papers so someone correct me, but what exactly is this citing? An email from an advocacy agency?
Just for amusment I went and looked up "Independent Council on Women’s Sports." just to see what kind of non-partial and independent academic body was making this submission
> The Independent Council on Women's Sports (ICONS) is an American anti-transgender advocacy organization that opposes transgender athletes participating in women’s sports. ICONS hosts an annual International Women's Sports Summit, where anti-transgender activists are invited to give talks over the course of three days. They also contribute amicus briefs and organizational assistance to anti-transgender legal cases, and their co-founder, Kim Jones, has infrequently hosted a podcast to discuss ICONS’ activities since August of 2022.
I don't want to make an argument from authority here, but this citation is not really compelling me to do further research.
I mean, the person making the claim is required to provide proof, right? Or is that not a thing any more?
Edit:
I looked further in the paper. The next good bit is here: "Female athletes are also more vulnerable to sustaining serious physical injuries when female-only sports spaces are opened to males,9 as documented in disciplines such as in volleyball,10 basketball11 and soccer.12"
What a scary sentence. Good thing it's got citations to prove it's worrying claims, let's check those out:
> Alec Schemmel, “Injured volleyball player speaks out after alleged transgender opponent spiked ball at her”, ABC 13 News, 20 April 2023
Wow, that sounds bad, injured by a spike, hey what's that funny word doing there, "alleged". Hmm, what could that be doing there?
> (of an incident or a person) said, without proof, to have taken place or to have a specified illegal or undesirable quality.
I'm glad we cited this definitive source where they claim they were hurt by someone who was transgender with zero proof whatsoever.
A bonus section! Here's another worrying section about the horrors of being a female athlete:
> Female athletes who may look “masculine” may be derogatorily described as lesbians.46
Ok, yes, that seems like a problem, but I wonder what else "female athletes who make look masculine" are called? Like, maybe they're accused of something else these days? Some other term is used to attempt to diminish their achievements and slander them? Weird they didn't mention that term.
Instead of engaging with curiosity and open-mindedness towards an expert UN report on this issue adversely affecting women and girls, you chose shallow, snarky dismissal and sarcastic quips.
Your reflexive refusal to take women's safety and fairness in sport seriously speaks volumes about your view of women more generally.
Thanks for linking the report though, even if it was just to cherry-pick bits of it to lazily sneer at. It gives other readers an easier way to click through and engage with the content thoughtfully.
It turns out that when people actually read your citations, sometimes they find out you're full of crap.
Arguing that women are in danger because one woman got hurt by another woman hitting a volleyball at her is ludicrously patronizing.
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/02640414.2024.2...
“The study compared current Olympic versus current Olympic Recognised sports, elite versus world class, and current versus retired Olympic sport athletes. Most athletes favoured biological sex categorisation (58%) and considered it unfair for trans women to compete in the female category, except for precision sports. This view was held most strongly by world class athletes regarding their own sport (77% unfair, 15% fair).”
There’s a conflict of rights here, and it has two sides.
:100:
Also hiding behind "scientific" findings that there is a purported spectrum between men and women. Science has known that XY and XX configurations of chromosome 47 are the normal genotypes of male and female, respectively, and that any other configuration of these chromosomes (or a failure of the Y chromosome to activate) are disorders and not normative. Trisomy 47 (XXX, XXY, or XYY) is a genetic disorder just like trisomy 18 (Edward's syndrome) or trisomy 21 (Down's syndrome). The fact that some people's lived experience is a life with a genetic disorder does not make it normative or not a disorder.
Women (~50.5% of the population) need their own spaces, and it is devastating to them and society at large to sacrifice their well-being for the sake of small, vocal portion of the population who happen to consistently beat them in sports. The vast majority of genetic men claiming access to women's spaces have no genetic disorder, so invoking genetic disorders (as some do) to support them is a red herring, and there's no cut-and-dry science to apply (except to invoke their genotype which contradicts their claim).
The stance I'm taking on this almost definitionally adheres to "objective truth over subjective emotion" - something GP says they also hold to in a different thread.
These were in fact some of the intellectual greats of the 20th century. Like many today, they wouldn't necessarily closely identify with "the right" as much as they'd disagree with and argue against the current ideology of the left.
Since you called out Lewis -- one of my favorites is his The Abolition of Man and its narrative counterpart That Hideous Strength. They describe in exquisite, arguably prophetic detail many of the evils of the modern left, particularly how it has ushered in a progressive downfall of society through institutionalized lies.
You and everyone like you owe so much of your current life to the modern left that your ingratitude is astounding. The very computer you're using to send your words to me is a product of science and rational thinking that you seem to abhor.
> science and rational thinking that you seem to abhor.
What did I say that gave you that impression? Au contraire.
Modern life, science, rational thinking -- these are not products of left-wing political, moral, or social ideology, not even a little bit. I'm curious how you arrived at that viewpoint, which is incoherent.
Perhaps that which is not currently right-coded is leftist to you, but political coding is a disparate concept from the propositions upon which worldviews are built.
It's undeniable that, right now, the right wing is anti-intellectual and anti-science. They constantly seek to censor speech, defund research and privatize public goods.
Where's a prominent politician saying "no actually, we should keep funding public research"? Or defending free speech? They're awfully quiet on the matter.
Frankly, I don't know how to define "left wing ideology", I've yet to hear anyone give a particularly good definition, but if we assume that what people who self-identify as right wing hate and fear is considered to be left wing, then it seems like I'm in favor of most of that.
Gender/transgender is a trivial subject to demonstrate the point. People thought "male" and "female" was a super specific binary that was trivial to separate people into. Then people did Science and found out it was considerably more complicated and closer to a spectrum with people crossing over at various points.
Now look at which group of people is rejecting that research by calling it a lie and shouting loudly and which group of people are changing their world views.
My email is in my bio if you'd like to discuss there.
First off, universities, including harvard and stanford or anyone else, are absolutely not perfect or above criticism. I'm sure they make tons of bad decisions and mistakes at all levels of their system and those deserve to be pointed out and complained about.
A subtle point is that I think it's useful to look at what someone was trying to accomplish, even if they did it badly or in a way that hurt people. Motive usually matters.
The more important point is that I want people to look at what happens when their agreement gives people more power. Donald trump is an easy example, a man who is literally famous for lying, could theoretically point out an actual mistake or even crime being committed by a university and be right. It's possible! But what actually happens when you agree with his position and start supporting it? He uses it to gain more power for him self, commit more corrupt actions and in general hurt society.
So yes, harvard or the faa or whoever did bad things and should be criticized. The solution is probably not anything involving trump or his cronies though.
Viewpoints are essentially grounded in actions, and actions are grounded in values or ways of being.
Values are acted out by individuals and groups through a relative hierarchy, and generally guide which actions are taken.
People generally consider what's true to be what works, and what works is relative to what action is being taken, and what action is being taken depends on the persons underlying values.
Because almost all of the universities' leadership has shifted far to the left side of the US political spectrum over the last 50 years, there is now a hostile environment to many right leaning values. You can argue that this was natural and that right leaning values are worse, but that would be unwise. There is good and bad in everything, and it's not helpful to over generalize. The reality is that there are both "good" and "bad" values on both sides of the political bias, but even that is probably too generalized. What makes a value good or bad is contextual. Some values are more helpful in certain situations or environments than others.
Even more important is that values don't naturally exist on one spectrum... The idea of "right" and "left" values is artificial.
So while I agree that the constriction of values being supported within universities is unhealthy like a stool that's had three legs chopped off, the idea that top down authoritarian enforcement on these organizations is the solution is somewhat terrifying.
Scary times.
Good lord that was a lot of words that said very little.
I'll try to be more concise and take an actual position: there's no such thing as a leftward shift, it's just people adopting the good ideas and abandoning the bad ideas.
I've seen first hand many examples where leadership (within specific schools, probably with a highest concentration within liberal arts schools), consistently value the jobs of the faculty over the future wellbeing of the students. They don't value providing students with knowledge and skills that will make them successful in life after they graduate, and they do value growing their own staff and power within the organization. They value adding more rules and avoiding making any mistakes over taking risks and evolving the education to keep up with the rest of the world. Some of them value short-term benefits for themselves over long-term benefits of their students. I've seen this first hand on many occasions, so many it's beyond anecdote. It's not all bad, that's not my point, but to assume that all their judgement is perfect and they haven't made any mistakes and they have it all figured out and shouldn't reconsider anything... Well, that sounds more like faith and church to me. You're treating them like bishops not academics.
I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. Are schools and their professors perfect? Obviously not. Should they be improved? Sure. Is this trump driven ideological attack related to improving schools? Again, obviously not.
And I attempted to explain (steelman) why some people may feel that this is necessary. For the record I think that this government letter, the precedent for it, etc. are authoritarian, and I don't support it.
My point is that schools have drifted in the values they support, and distinctly away from politically right values (both the good ones and the bad ones), which has made America more fragile and led to an increase in authoritarianism. I am not condoning an authoritarian solution to the problem, but I am aware of and attempting to explain the problem, because I thought you were inviting an explanation.
Little did I know your "I don't understand" wasn't an expression of curiosity. This is a great example of expressing values, since I place a higher value on curiosity, and I guess you place a higher value on judgement?
I also disagree with your point that "schools have drifted in the values they support". It's probably more accurate to say the right wing has sprinted in the opposite direction of the typical values of a university.
I also don't think this has anything to do with a rise in authoritarianism, it's far more likely to attribute such a thing to fear and desperation, whether real or invoked by influencers for a specific reason.
A 2005 paper by Daniel Klein and Charlotta Stern found that in humanities and social sciences, Democrats outnumbered Republicans by 10:1.
A 2016 study by Mitchell Langbert, Anthony Quain, and Daniel Klein updated this, showing Democrat-to-Republican faculty ratios as high as 17:1 in some disciplines (e.g., history, sociology).
STEM fields tend to be more balanced, but even there, the trend has leaned more left over time.
The HERI Faculty Survey (Higher Education Research Institute, UCLA) consistently reports increasing liberal identification among faculty since the 1980s.
In 1989: ~39% of faculty identified as "liberal" or "far left"
By 2017: ~60% identified that way
The National Association of Scholars and Pew Research have shown that students are also trending more liberal, particularly in elite institutions.
DEI (Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion) offices have expanded dramatically:
A 2021 Heritage Foundation study found that DEI staff at major universities often outnumbered tenured history faculty.
Speech codes and bias response teams:
The Foundation for Individual Rights and Expression (FIRE) has tracked increases in campus speech restrictions, often under the guise of protecting against offensive or harmful speech, typically aligned with progressive concerns.
Emergence and expansion of identity studies programs (e.g., gender studies, critical race theory, postcolonial studies) reflect values that align with left-leaning critiques of power and hierarchy.
Declining requirements in Western Civilization or classical education in general education curricula, often replaced with more critical or globalized approaches.
A 2012 study in PS: Political Science & Politics reported that a majority of academic psychologists would discriminate against conservatives in hiring or grant review.
A 2020 paper by Honeycutt and Freberg showed similar bias in academic psychology departments.
Growing number of conservative-leaning donors (e.g., from the University of Chicago, Claremont Institute) have publicly criticized institutions for abandoning viewpoint diversity.
New initiatives such as the University of Austin (UATX) were launched explicitly as a reaction against perceived ideological conformity in mainstream academia.
The cumulative effect of these trends—political affiliation data, surveys, policy changes, curriculum developments, and institutional responses—strongly supports the claim that American universities have moved leftward over the past five decades. The change is most pronounced in the humanities and social sciences, and more muted in professional and STEM fields.
That's true. Universities no longer present the viewpoint that black people are inferior to whites and deserve to be slaves. They no longer present the viewpoint that human health comes from the balance of the four humours. They no longer present the viewpoint that women are the property of their fathers/husbands. They no longer present the viewpoint that nature is fundamentally made up of earth, aire, fire, and water. How dare they abandon these ideas and still call themselves a "marketplace of ideas"! Hypocrisy!
There is nothing wrong with discussing bad ideas, especially with students that aren't familiar with them, if done responsibly, with respect for the student, and facilitation of critical thinking.
This attitude that certain topics or ideas are taboo and shouldn't ever be acknowledged or discussed because they are bad is a big part of what is increasing extremism and pushing America to the brink. It's authoritarian, and it makes the nation more fragile, not stronger.
Please stop arguing that ideas should be free from criticism.
I'm arguing that we shouldn't censor bad ideas, or exclude them entirely from the relevant discussions. And more to the point, when we educate the next generation we should be doing so in a holistic way so that they understand why and when bad ideas are bad, and why those ideas were ever popular in the first place.
I'm arguing against ideological censorship, not justified and well constructed criticism.
Certain ideas have been so heavily criticized that people have stopped bringing them up. Criticizing a speaker at a college is not censorship, it's criticism and argument. Having a protest outside a speaker's event isn't censorship either, it's free speech.
I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt here since perhaps you genuinely don't know that the people you're aligning your argument with are asking for their own ideas to be free from criticism.
This might be a good starting point: https://popehat.substack.com/p/our-fundamental-right-to-sham...
> This is sheer nonsense from the jump. Americans don’t have, and have never had, any right to be free of shaming or shunning. The First Amendment protects our right to speak free of government interference. It does not protect us from other people saying mean things in response to our speech. The very notion is completely incoherent. Someone else shaming me is their free speech, and someone else shunning me is their free association, both protected by the First Amendment.
When you bring up an abhorrent idea and I call you an idiot and ask you to leave, I'm not censoring you. If I refuse to invite you over next week, I'm still not censoring you. Nobody owes you a platform and demanding one is one of the more pernicious forms of free-speech-rights violations there are.
When I criticize the actions of one of the cults, it doesn't automatically put me in the other cult.
I am not American, therefore I am not republican. I don't even consider myself politically right. I align with some right-leaning values, while aligning with more left-leaning ones.
I am here discussing these things in an effort to keep tabs on what's going on, but also because I think attempting to reconcile the differences between the two sides is a positive action. I want America to work this out without a full blown kinetic civil war. I have virtually no control over this outcome, so I will take small barely significant actions to try and nudge towards a more favorable outcome. My engagement here is an attempt to act as one tiny piece of a bridge, even if it means I am going to get trampled. It's a sacrifice, potentially in vein, and maybe even unwise, but at this point I don't know what else to do to help, and I am also afraid of making it worse.
Maybe I should just do nothing?
Your Later Comment: "You also know that I'm not suggesting outlawing the discussion of slavery in its historical context, but simply saying that universities have no obligation to make a case for failed and abhorrent ideas in the name of "diverse viewpoints"."
I am not American, Republican or even politically right. I am not your enemy. Please try and take the most respectful interpretation of what I am saying.
Your first and second comments I quoted above contradict each other.
The straw man I was referencing in your original post is how you pointed to the worst examples of "right" values. I indulged the examples you shared by stating even in those cases those ideas need to be explored fully in order to understand why they failed, so they are not repeated. I understand you are not advocating for these discussions to be outlawed, and I agree! I also don't advocate for these discussions to be forcefully imposed! However I do think that schools have evolved their curriculums to such an extent that many of these ideas are not adequately analyzed or represented within the programs offered, and the consequence is that it makes society weaker and more susceptible to the ideas resurfacing.
Also, I honestly don't know who GP is that you are referring to. I also don't know who you are, what you believe, or what you meant beyond the words you wrote in that one comment. I am not pretending anything. Just trying to point out how avoiding discussing certain ideas (by deliberately excluding them from curriculums), just because those ideas are "bad", is a problem that will have big long-term consequences, including the resurgence of those "bad" ideas (because the education system didn't inoculate people against them).
In your original comment that I responded to, it sounded like you were saying universities shouldn't discuss these ideas (including their subjective historical-context-dependent merits or correlated beliefs) at all. Now it sounds like you are saying that's not your stance. That's fine, you clarified your stance.
It's not helpful to assume that I should have known this was your stance all along and that I am pretending not to.
It's telling that intelligent discussions with people on the left are almost impossible without such disclaimers
The right should have pride in their selves, and build their own universities, if not their own realities!
University students love messing with surveys.
My prediction: They'd coordinate to answer according to the groups they don't belong to. Right-leaning people would claim to be on the left. Left-leaning people would claim to be on the right.
This seems obviously preferable to "Sorry, we have too many of your race."
The earnest determination of segemnts of the HN comments "community" to prevent discussion of topics they don't agree with is almost as concerning as the actions of this adminstration.