Ask HN: How to Prepare for No Electricity | Hacker News Reader

Ask HN: How to Prepare for No Electricity

2 pointsBrannonKing6 comments

Dear HN crowd:

If there were a reasonable probability of you and your continent being without electricity for a year, how would you prepare? I'm interested in your thoughts on the things I listed below -- where to get these things and what I'm missing.

Water: I don't know if the water pressure to my house would stay or not. Assuming not, I need some mechanism for collecting rain water off the roof or off a tarp. I need some water filters that work well for pulling water from a nearby stream. I've seen water purification pills, but are there any without detergents in them? I used to have a house with a well; if I get one again, I'll get a hand-pump for the well. Hopefully the toilets will stay flushable by dumping water in them.

Food: I will keep several buckets of wheat berries and oats. I grind my own wheat regularly anyway. I need a hand-powered grinder to go with them, though. Some extra canned food would be handy. I expect the deer in the nearby forest would disappear quickly, but I might try to shoot one early.

Heat: I need a propane tank and a heater for the house. The propane needs to be used for cooking too. Without electricity, maybe a large battery with a solar charger would be helpful to run a blower? Or maybe a wood-burning stove would be sufficient? There is forest nearby.

Communications: it would be awesome if our phones could work peer-to-peer. I haven't seen that tech yet, though. (Work on it!) Maybe I and my extended family could have satellite phones that only cost when used. It would be nice if they could bring in weather and news. I need solar chargers for all these small devices.

Are there any major needs on that list I'm missing? Some things I might want: extra gasoline, a generator powered by my bicycle, a waterwheel generator, dry beans, and a large house battery (though I haven't been impressed by these yet).

No offence meant, but this sounds like those doomsday prepper fantasies where they store chainsaws and crossbows in the garage because they think they’d thrive in a zombie apocalypse.

If your whole continent went without electricity for a year, something massively fucked up would be going on (like a gigantic war) and stocking up on beans and berries wouldn’t begin to address the issue.

Connecting phones peer-to-peer is a bad priority when civilisation and the government are collapsing around you. We already have cheap, reliable, sturdy walkie-talkies which run on replaceable batteries that can last for months and years, why would we waste precious energy resources charging expensive, fragile, unreliable phones that barely last one day?

Sounds like you don’t live in a city and are fantasising about being cut off from the rest of the world, but for most people collaboration would be key. Communities would need to form and be tighter to help everyone.

No offence meant, but this sounds like those doomsday prepper fantasies where they store chainsaws and crossbows in the garage because they think they’d thrive in a zombie apocalypse.

I think that's a bit harsh. Past generations thought of these things and incorporated solutions into their lives that today would be called emergency preparedness. The silent and great generations did just dandy off-grid for years at a time very far from towns. Manual saws, axes, machetes, rope can get a lot done and keep someone strong.

There are some nutty preppers, some fear-porn youtuber preppers that scare people into buying things but then there are the rest of us that just accept things can go sideways. Anyone that has been watching fringe less-than-censored media have seen the massive fleets moving towards Iran. It's about to get real and when it gets real then it's too late to incorporate most off-grid solutions. I think it's great they are at least asking questions and thinking about options.

> Past generations thought of these things and incorporated solutions into their lives that today would be called emergency preparedness.

Something which causes a whole continent to lose electricity for a year needs to be a catastrophe of epic proportions, it’s not a mere emergency.

> The silent and great generations did just dandy off-grid for years at a time very far from towns.

They didn’t live in an always connected world where everything runs on electricity and systems are explicitly designed to only work that way. There is a canyon of difference between living in a world where a technology doesn’t exist and one where most of society depends on one thing you suddenly lost access to.

> I think it's great they are at least asking questions and thinking about options.

I’m not saying they shouldn’t prepare. Being prepared is a good thing. I’m saying their scenario is unrealistic to the point there’s no proper helpful answer, like asking how to prepare for a meteor strike. If something like that happens your beans aren’t going to save you.

Something which causes a whole continent to lose electricity for a year needs to be a catastrophe of epic proportions, it’s not a mere emergency.

Call it what you want. It's a change in lifestyle. Humans did just fine for hundreds of thousands of years without all the current toys. Stock up on books, find outdoor hobbies, accept a change in lifestyle or don't. I'm sure some will not be able to cope with that big of a change and some will self delete. I am not going to try to save those people. We can't save everyone.

They didn’t live in an always connected world where everything runs on electricity and systems are explicitly designed to only work that way. There is a canyon of difference between living in a world where a technology doesn’t exist and one where most of society depends on one thing you suddenly lost access to.

Yup, never disputed that. The dependencies are entirely artificial. That's why now is a great time to learn older methods of living. Anything else is denial in my view. People in denial are going to suffer. Those open to change will survive. Some of them may even find happiness in the old ways even if it is a bit of struggle. I'm not suggesting everyone can suddenly adopt the Amish ways of life but it should be a stretch goal. Getting even half way there can mean the difference between survival and becoming a distant memory. That isn't a one person thing. It takes a collective of neighbors and that will be a struggle for younger generations that only text and stay indoors.

It’s like if someone asked what they should do to prepare for a meteor strike.

They did not ask about a meteor strike. That is a real threat given we pass through the Taurid meteor stream every year and have not even seen 10% of what's out there. Sure, if an earth sterilizing asteroid or comet hits beans won't help. Don't stress over such things one has no control over.

The probability of electricity going away for 1+ years is very high. One need only take out 3 major power distribution points in the US to end electricity nation wide. A HANES attack from a high altitude balloon could also take it out for 1+ years and we saw how poorly the government in the USA responded to that. China was certainly watching. We do not have spares for the really big transformers and they are made in China and most roads no longer facilitate moving them due to newer bridges. Ooops.

If you're expecting a continent-wide, one-year power outage you should prepare for something much longer.

Electricity: Solar panels, windmill, watermill, bicycle for charging batteries, and, of course, batteries.

Mechanical power: Windmill, watermill, bicycle for handling things like grinding grain and pumping water. You can do these by hand, but that's inefficient and if the environment (wind, water) can do it for you you're much better off. Burning calories to grind the grain that you use to get calories means you have to consume more, minimize your caloric needs and focus your energy on activities that can't be mechanized.

Heat: Propane is ok, but your scenario suggests no resupply. You also say you're near a forest, there are efficient woodburning stoves for heating and cooking.

Water: Do you really want to spend a year hand pumping water for irrigation and consuming or dragging it from a stream in the winter? A well with a mechanical pump (windmill). Use barrels to catch rain water (this is trivial to setup) for irrigation and toilets. You can use a mesh filter for the barrel water to make it suited for the toilet since potability is not a concern for that case. Cisterns can hold more, use mechanical pumps to move the water as needed. Elevated water tanks remove the need to pressurize your water, requires some power to move it up to the tank but that's what the windmill is for.

Communications: Solved over a century ago with radios, you need some batteries and some hardware. Get it now and start practicing. Mesh networks may be viable depending on proximity to other people and their willingness to contribute. A continent-wide, year-long power outage suggests a long-term sustained attack on infrastructure, I would not rely on any satcom system as something like that is unlikely to stay contained to only a single continent.

Something you didn't address:

Transportation: Cars will be useless in short order under your scenario. It doesn't sound like you have farmland already, or I'd suggest horses and oxen or other pack animals. Get bicycles and learn to maintain and repair them. They can double without much effort as a source of mechanical power and to charge batteries for some uses (lighting at night, radio).

Food: If you're sincerely expecting this, don't even bother with refrigeration anymore. You should learn to cure meats, can vegetables, and process grains (sounds like you do that already). Get cats, food storage will result in rodents and other pests.

Food: If you can afford it freeze dried foods last 25+ years (much longer if stored right). They maintain 97+% of their flavor and nutritional value. They can also be bartered with neighbors. Dehydrated foods are also an option, not quite as good as freeze-dried and then finally canned and foods with long shelf life like the ones you describe. Work on getting super healthy and fit now to reduce the impact of eating less than healthy foods in a crisis. There are also videos that show how the Amish prepare and preserve foods though I would avoid most of their unhealthy food selections.

Water: Numerous 5-gallon BPA free containers with water (5 are easier to carry) and a small amount of peroxide to keep anything from growing in it. Read up on water treatment as there are several options and one must get measurements right or the water will be unsafe to drink in a year. Avoid streams and filters. They do not work as advertised and getting diarrhea will deplete you of water. Those are absolutely last resort. Filtering rain water if the system is set up to do a first-flush of bird poop is a little safer but still requires chemical treatment. Research how deep the water table is at your location. If shallow enough you may be able to make your own DIY hand-pumped solution. That will also need basic filtration to remove large minerals and dirt.

Heat: Wood stove and a lot of seasoned wood can last a long time. One can usually find more wood. Propane services, deliveries, trucks will not be available. Use it while you can but then consider the multiple uses of a wood stove. If your country bans wood stoves then just don't tell them you have one. If you have time to build it, you can make an insulated green-house with large black containers of water essentially heat batteries that can store heat from the sun using water. Some people use clay-filled boxes that face the sun with tubing in them. You can use filters and vents with solar powered low speed fans to peel some of that heat off the green-house for your home. Compost can also produce heat.

Communication: Weather band emergency radios today are multipurpose. Some have very large batteries and solar that can charge themselves and your phone assuming cell sites are still working. A combination of FRS (UHF) and CB radio (HF) are great if your neighbors have them. FRS radios are cheap and easy to charge with solar. Many models of FRS radios also have built in weather-bands. Get a set of 12 or 24 of them so you can share with neighbors and have spare units. Coordinate channels and CTSS codes for different purposes in your neighborhood.

For DIY solar solutions check out Will Prowse [1]. He has an account on HN but no idea if he still comes here.

[1] - https://www.youtube.com/c/WillProwse/videos

Reply on news.ycombinator.com