Ask HN: Why all the negativity? | Hacker News Reader

Ask HN: Why all the negativity?

14 pointsmikek15 comments

I've noticed a lot of negative comments on HN recently... comments that disregard that the people making products and announcements are real people with real feelings.

For example, the top comment on "TextMate 2 goes open source" is this:

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4361845

There so much negativity that even neutral comments like this comment on Grid [1] was assumed to be nasty and received a strong response from pg:

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4357133

I'm sure there are lots more examples of this. Please let's all be aware of this and lets try to make HN a more welcoming place.

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Yeah, I noticed this as well. I had stopped reading comments for about a year, since I got really busy (nothing to do with the state of the comments), and only recently have been reading it again. The sentiment is different. Lots of people nitpicking at random little things that have nothing to do with the main point of the article.

It's like lots of people are perpetuating the cycle of:

1) Read the title and get offended and then write a snarky comment

1a) Read part of the way and and then write a ranting comment

1b) Read the full thing, but nitpick at something that doesn't have any bearing on the main point.

2) Get upvoted by other trolls

Sad thing is, I think it's chased away some of the better older users like http://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=edw519 He hasn't posted much in the last half year, and everything he's said was met with negativity.

And of the older users that stayed, their sentiment is pretty negative as well. I'm not sure how this happened, as HN usually self-corrects. But lately, this has been going on for seemingly a while when I read back post comments.

I'm not sure what to do other than post more insightful and positive messages and don't reply to the negative trolls.

I'm still here. Nice to be not(noticed). Thanks, iamwil.

I haven't participated much recently for 2 reasons. 1. I'm super busy with my own work. 2. This phenomenon, which I've cited many times before:

          Quality of Hacker News Comments Over Time

   |                   . .
   |                  .   . 
  q| . .             .     .
  u|    .           .       .               . . .
  a|     .         .          .           .       .
  l|      .       .              .      .           .
  i|       .     .                  . .               .    
  t|        . . .                       you are here -->. .
  y|                                      (that's all)
   |________________________________________________________
    J J A S O N D J F M A M J J A S O N D J F M A M J J A S

I think many peoples interpretation of this site, is that since it's related to start-ups that it's supposed to be the typical vapid conversation you might find at a start-up gathering. The thinking is that everyone has to be super positive because they can't afford to be negative whether in dollars or in social cred.

However, there are also readers here that don't need to put forth an image because they're not trying to make the start-up scene or maintain a persona. Many of these same people also feel a moral obligation to keep the truth, which can clash with other HN participants' motives.

Maybe textmate 2 is shitty. You have to ask yourself what is the reason you think that idea should not be put forth here.

Negativity is sort of the natural state of discussing things. If you have something positive to say, it's often vapid or redundant. "Yay, this is good!" isn't really saying much.

Also, when you have a dissenting opinion, you're more likely to be vocal.

"If you have something positive to say, it's often vapid or redundant" ... it doesn't have to be.

I have a singer friend who works on a huge variety of projects, some "good", some "bad", but there is always something positive to say about the "bad" ones.

That's the purpose of positive criticism, and - for what it's worth - that's exactly what comes across when you watch PG do something like office hours at Disrupt.

I do generally agree however that there does appear to be a lot of negative comments from time to time, but my impression is that when the world turns so that HN is in Europe time, there is a bit more.

It may seem negative to you, and in a particular light I can see that perspective, but you should ask whether those comments truly provide any meaningful contribution to the discussion.

I have been seeing everything from "+1" or similar to "Wow that's great", and while positive, they are ultimately useless comments. They don't contribute in any meaningful way to the discussion. I will always downvote anything that doesn't add meaning.

We are worried about trolls, but all too often we forget about the happy Flickr effect. This means that if you put up a photo on Flickr, almost 99.9% of the commentary you will get on it will be positive. "That's a great photo, good job, +1, WOW, etc". When all of the feedback on your content is purely negative or purely positive, its effectively meaningless.

Our jobs as users of HN is to maintain the traditional high level of discourse as much as possible. That doesn't mean to be assholes or ever-loving angels, but to be in the middle. If you read through my comment history, its a combination of positive and negative. I even recognize that sometimes I forget my own advice and think I come across as too critical or too approving.

Because there's a lot of useless shit being posted lately.

The revolving door of Ouya, App.net, sexism in STEM, Apple, and nostalgic blogspam is monumental, the number of 'startups' out there that are not startups is scary (note: 'cool project' is not the only criteria for having a startup), and the relative level of meta discussion (like this) is slowly climbing to an unacceptable level.

If everyone will just shut up and chill out, the problem will correct itself. These things happen in waves, and should be no surprise to anyone who has been on the Internet for more than four years.

Déjà vu a little: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4354635

Can you provide an example of an internet forum that you consider to be "positive"?

HN has a higher level of discourse than any other discussion site on the internet. I'm willing to bet that the ratio of helpful comments to nasty comments on hn is as high as any site you could name.

If you think HN is negative, you should avoid reddit at all costs. Put 4chan in your /etc/hosts, because the level of negativity there is enough to turn a sadist's stomach. Have you ever seen the comments on huffington post or npr? Compared to those places, HN is a non-stop praise-a-thon.

I think the textmate comment is a great example. The commenter didn't just say "textmate sux!", he or she made a case and presented some kind of evidence for the claim of textmate being subpar. I don't think that people need to go out of their way to phrase things in the nicest way possible. If they don't like something, they should be able to say that without being labelled as "negative".

I think it's generally an online thing. I find much more negativity online than in real life. One reason is that it's easier and safer to be negative.

"I knew that company wasn't going to work out."

"I knew that was too good to be true."

In most cases, statements like these are a safe bet. Things aren't always optimistic. I do find it depressing though -- I prefer communities that encourage, maybe even naively, optimism.

I almost never upvote negative comments, although I seem to be a minority in that regard.

Funny thing, in the past few weeks I started making more HN comments just to get a feel for it. Of the lot of them some are insightful, some helpful, some joking, many boring, and one mean. The one mean one is the highest rated.

An earlier discussion, fwiw (from 2009): http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=926604

I prefer the negativity. Gives you an idea of what to work on next if it is your project, or how to do better than them if it isn't, etc..

Following unwittingly, perhaps, the advice "be hated"?

Another poster made up this phrase. It's Alpha Nerd Syndrome. We can't get the chicks. We can't diss the boss. So we reveal our ego in an internet forum :)

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