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Comment by paintbox | Hacker News Reader

It's a question of national security not to let Meta eat that cake, and Brasil made the right choice.

Tangentially related, I've heard talk of EU alternative to VISA and Mastercard, which I also believe is the right direction.

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WhatsApp Pay is available today in Brazil. The official reason for blocking the launch was missing paperwork, but word on the street at the time was that it was to favor Pix. This is all mentioned in the Retuers article. The reasons for favoring Pix are left for one to speculate. You say national security, the other says financial surveillance and control over the population. Time will tell.

I'd much rather let the Central Bank handle my instant payments, than Meta.

So do most Brazilians, as today that choice is available. It's interesting how being the first to launch contributed to that preference, regardless of the widespread usage of WhatsApp. There are other interesting factors to consider. For example, a lot of people had WhatsApp but no bank account. As mentioned in The Economist's article there have been changes to the banking sector brought by Pix as well. Anyway, an interesting case study, and that's why I mentioned it.

Why? Your own government can do a whole lot more to you than a foreign corporation.

Well, I can vote so that the thing my government does to me is something I want.

The foreign corporation will always be exclusively interested in doing things to me that generate revenue for them.

> Well, I can vote so that the thing my government does to me is something I want.

You better hope that your interests closely align with those of millions of your compatriots.

And that no one with political power has a personal vendetta against you.

>You better hope that your interests closely align with those of millions of your compatriots.

corporation NEVER has my interests in mind, so coordinating millions is easier

>And that no one with political power has a personal vendetta against you.

same argument can be used with corporations

Those points are true, but a private corporation can't take away my life, liberty, or property under the threat of violence.

> [the government can] take away my life, liberty, or property under the threat of violence.

I do not envy your life situation if this is something that you have to genuinely worry about.

Blackwater?

Financial surveillance would happen either way. It’s either from your government or to a foreign company, bundled and sold en mass.

In this case, maybe. But it's not the only option. The old payment system was a bit more private, as payments went through commercial banks and one needed a court order to access transaction history. According to The Economists' article the instant payment system in other countries adopts a similar scheme, which is more private than Brazil's, and which could have been adopted here too. Also, there exists technology today enabling private micro-transactions, such as Monero. But governments - including Brazil's - prevent exchanges to offer it. Europe is no different.[1] One may argue this prevents abuse, which may be true, but it also prevents financial privacy.

[1] https://support.kraken.com/hc/en-us/articles/support-for-mon...

With everything that Pix offers but WhatsApp Pay doesn't, I don't think WhatsApp Pay would hold a candle even if it were launched before.

Yeah, there was already alternatives before pix, like PicPay/Mercado Pago, and Pix just "killed" them (people still use to be clear, but just as a normal payment app)

Control over the population? That's some conspiracy theory.

Nothing stops the government from blocking your Pix transactions on a whim. They can just turn off your money whenever they want. They can confiscate your money any time if they want. They can do pretty much anything.

Conspiracy theory? It's cyberpunk stuff, the likes of which we see in fiction. Only it's not fiction. We're watching the whole thing unfold right before our very eyes.

I remember watching videos of people at events from many years ago. They warned us all about this stuff, explored all the possible consequences. It's pretty bleak. And now I'm living in this reality, the knowledge of the danger weighs down on me every day where I have to use the system. And people like you come here and calls us conspiracy theorists.

They could have always done it at your bank as well. Easy electronic transfer changes nothing in that regard.

They have done it before. The difference is you can withdraw your cash if you see it coming. The government's end game is to get rid of physical cash with Pix and soon Drex.

Without physical cash, your finances are one hundred percent controlled by the government. Sure, it's convenient, but you pay for that convenience with your freedom.

Yup, my comment was directed at those who want to prevent electronic money. But it’s no different than earlier banking.

I support cash and gold as well.

These systems are not a direct alternative to Visa/Mastercard. They offer no credit and give no fraud protection and no way to revert transactions (ie you can never get your money back once you send it).

Although they can replace a lot (most?) of existing transactions that are currently done through credit cards, there is still a place for them.

> Tangentially related, I've heard talk of EU alternative to VISA and Mastercard, which I also believe is the right direction.

There is Wero, I guess similar to Pix as an alternative for instant payment like PayPal, but it's meant to be used with your bank account and not a lot of banks support it.

i hate this expansion of national security justification and securitization rhetoric - whether it is the US justifying tariffs or deportation or Brazilians justifying no fair play under the law or trying to jail presidential candidates.

> or trying to jail presidential candidates.

not trying, jailing. Soon, we will have the second jailed presidential candidate in less than 10 years. Many Brazilians do believe that this is a sign that the Justice System is working, tho.

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