Palma 2 | Hacker News Reader

Palma 2

shop.boox.com

93 pointstosh69 comments

Boox makes neat devices but keep in mind they don't respect the GPL if that matters to you, and their QC and warranty service is apparently not great either. Their subreddit is full of reports of dead displays which their support always insists is the users fault so they can refuse a replacement. They were also caught running sockpuppet accounts to cast blame on anyone posting about a broken display (not very subtly because that was the only activity on those accounts).

https://old.reddit.com/r/tablets/comments/19czayd/a_general_...

> they don't respect the GPL

Was considering buying one, but this might be a deal-breaker for me. Have they given a reason? Is there an email address I could complain to?

I've been reading online complaints about this for years, I don't think they would care about someone complaining

There is Pinenote as a similar (and should I guess, worse) ereader, but I don't know anything about it

its not really ready for consumers.I have a Pine tablet which is a bit more mature, but it has rough edges and missing functionality.

They won't do anything. Every time this comes up I remember this shocking email they sent: https://www.reddit.com/r/Onyx_Boox/comments/hsn7kx/onyx_usin...

I came to a similar conclusion when I was very very close to pushing the 'Buy' button on the original Palma. My main hope is for this to be successful enough to encourage some competitors who do the software / service side in a way I can get on board with.

The grammar around "an open Android system with a pre-installed Google Play Store" made me question their licensing compliance. I don't think I've ever seen a legitimate manufacturer brag about a "pre-installed" Play Store.

On some of their devices you have to jump through a couple of hoops to enable Google Play Services and Store, maybe that's what they're referring to.

I'd agree about the warranty. I just bought a palma in the fall and was loving it until it's display randomly broke (screen is fine, just the e-ink display) while in a soft internal pocket, completely refused any warranty and cost to replace was 50% of the palma itself. Would definitely avoid them

When smartphones became a thing a whole new requirement for web responsiveness was born. I wonder about a third kind: webpages that “paginate” rather than scroll.

I love the idea of eInk. Most of the good things I do on my phone would be improved with it, and most of the time killers would be discouraged. But I’m not sure I could handle the scrolling.

Newer eink devices are extremely fast.

If you have an android based eink device, try einkbro https://github.com/plateaukao/einkbro It supports mapping pageUp/down to touch gestures or physical buttons. You can avoid scrolling that way. I wish I had a way to install on a Kindle too

You can do that on the Boox devices. On their default Neo browser, the volume keys act as PgUp/PgDn, so the screen doesn't refresh when you scroll a few pixels. I had this feature on the Dolphin Android browser way back in the day.

scrolling is a valuable dark pattern to apps. It's there because of it's Chattel's requirements

They say the e-ink display has "Unmatched Speed, Never Seen on ePaper" so it would nice to know the actual refresh rate.

This is not an endorsement, but https://daylightcomputer.com/ claims 60fps, so that's the bar to meet in my opinion. Caveat: the daylight display is not true e-ink, but an e-ink-like LCD, IIUC.

Im confused, how is a different technology the bar to meet for a given technology?

That feels like saying “my car can go 60mph so thats the bar to beat for a bicycle”.

Whats the battery like on the daylight?

Both devices focus on readability and rely on a reflective screen. Both devices are monochrome.

This is like comparing OLED vs MicroLED. They're technically different technologies, and each has it's own strengths. The OP is saying that "Never Seen on ePaper" is like saying "The Best iPhone Ever"...

To this day, dealing with Boox customer service is one of the worst experiences I've ever had.

Can confirm, and would recommend against buying one. Additionally they lock down their bootloader and do not release their kernel source code, basically you're trusting your data and home network for a random vendor. It's a shame because their devices (hw) are extremely capable.

Why can't this be a phone? Why? I would throw so much money at this if it was a phone!

Well, the bigme hibreak pro might be what you are looking for

That's likely my next device! I have a palma 2 and a unihertz Jellystar as my main phone. Might be a good merge of the 2. Phone + e-ink to help with phone over usage.

Having had a regular Hibreak since last August, I would like to caution about the build quality: in those 8 months, the display adhesive is progressively getting off and I'm not sure how much longer this'll live...

little tough to trust these guys with clearly photoshopped images on their product detail page https://store.bigme.vip/products/bigme-epaper-smartphone-hib...

they look exactly like the whitelabel stuff you see in the bargain bin on amazon

The Minimal Phone is coming out this year with an eink screen and qwerty keyboard.

https://minimalcompany.com/

I would 100% use this if it had cellular.

It's not a phone?

Nope, which is very bizarre. I don't understand the point of the phone form factor if it doesn't have a SIM card slot. It even has a microphone and everything but you can't make calls from it.

If you install signal or WhatsApp would it work?

Yes, if you're on Wi-Fi. It's running Android and even comes with the Play Store. I have one of their larger readers and a lot of apps worked out of the boox.

not if you don't have a WiFi signal available. The part that makes it a cell phone isn't the ability to run messaging apps, it's the cellular modem.

Nope, it's an e-reader in a cell-phone form factor. No modem.

What's confusing is that it's not just a small e-reader. It has a microphone, SD card, the Google Play store, and normal smartphone apps. Everything except cell data / SIM card.

Throwback to ipod touch.

Yeah, good point. Because the iPod touch was also kinda awkward as a product, but it made more sense as a transitionary device when smartphone penetration wasn't fully ubiquitous.

In 2025, the Palma product seems like feature creep since I wouldn't expect smartphone apps to appeal to anyone looking for less distraction. That's how most people use tablets which are dedicated distraction devices stuck on wifi.

I've often wondered why there aren't devices that have all network operations bundled into a removable module; that way you could get both people who want some level of disconnect and those who want a more thorough level of disconnect.

I had one of these[1]. Worst part was that the push-push slot wasn't so secure and modem would crash silently.

1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W-SIM

There are attempts at module based electronics. Google had “Project Ara" https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Ara

The HMD fusion budget smartphone has a pogo-pin port on the back for peripherals https://www.theregister.com/2025/01/03/hmd_fusion_review/

Not sure why they fail in the marketplace. Maybe look at other similar market failures like power tools with different interchangable heads? I suspect the sticker price of the individual modules scares consumers.

A hotspot?

LMAO what. I was really impressed and thought of buying one. I was thinking that it could replace my phone, and I wouldn't use phone as much.

it's so weird that they made it a phone form factor and there's apps too but no cellular

I already carry an e-reader around in my bag, but of course it can't replace my phone. This is another e-reader that also can't replace my phone, and would also have to live in my bag. It looks very nice! But if it can't replace my phone when I'm out of the house...

If you had a mobile hotspot, can it use that? Can it use wifi to make calls or send text messages?

I don't see much of a reason to buy this over the older Palma given that they have the exact same screen and the older palma has a processor that's more than fast enough for e-ink.

I don't think fingerprint recognition is a significant enough feature to choose this device over the older model given the price difference.

I am expecting for them to release either a color or a Carta 1300 device sometime this year. Which would make sense as an upgrade.

I've got a Palma 2 and I like it. It replaces the Kindle for me: fits in the pocket, more book apps, actual feed reader and read later apps, good for typing quick notes and using Anki. You can also use Terminus to ssh to a box in a pinch.

I would never think of daily driving it as a phone if it had a modem. The biggest dealbreaker is that streaming music is a pain on e-ink devices: all of the services except Apple Music (which doesn't support 2FA sign in on Android so it's useless to me) are dark mode only, and dark mode is the enemy on e-ink. Another problem is that the camera is pre smartphone level, it's really bad and with e-ink it's harder to see if the focus is good. And of course, it's running an obsolete version of Android and is continuously phoning home to China, so you probably don't want any important data on it. But as an e-reader, I strongly prefer it to the walled garden tablets.

> The biggest dealbreaker is that streaming music is a pain on e-ink devices

It's funny: I now use my eink device (Moaan) almost exclusively for music, because there's no streaming so I have to curate my playlist.

For the light theme, try poweramp or the likes that support themes.

> I would never think of daily driving it as a phone if it had a modem

I would never had purchased it if it had a modem. I like to disconnect, I don't want to be tempted by apps.

> And of course, it's running an obsolete version of Android and is continuously phoning home to China, so you probably don't want any important data on it.

I prefer the Mooan because I do not want the google play store on my devices: I can still install apps from F-Droid.

e-ink phone sized devices are excellent for a minimalistic experience: without color or a modem, you are less tempted to use apps.

I also do not want a camera: I prefer the smoother back both to put a credit card holder there, and have no temptation to take a picture.

The point about playlist curation makes sense, it's a valid way to go about it. Another app that works well on e-ink is Plexamp, which can be used for a NAS-based library as a sort of middle ground. I've been down that road though and concluded that I do prefer streaming, particularly when it comes to keeping up with today's artists who like to do digital releases almost to the exclusion of anything else.

>I like to disconnect, I don't want to be tempted by apps.

Fair, but I was specifically addressing the people who want a device that fulfills the good/essential functions of a smartphone (messaging apps, GPS, music) with less app temptation. A cell modem is essential for that use case.

> temptation to take a picture

Hah, not really an issue for me. My friends are always complaining that I go on holiday for 2 weeks and come back with 2 photos. But that would be a consideration for those that have it and for the smooth back (the Palma 2's camera is almost flush but not quite). Depending on where you are in the world, having a camera may count as essential due to prevalence of QR codes. And the Palma 2's camera is so bad it usually can't read one from more than 6 inches away. Just really wanted to emphasize whatever it cost Boox to add a camera was completely wasted.

> I've been down that road though and concluded that I do prefer streaming, particularly when it comes to keeping up with today's artists who like to do digital releases almost to the exclusion of anything else.

Yes, even with stores like supraphonline.cz I often depend on yt-dl for new songs

I wish there was a more direct way to support the work artists I like without being forced to use streaming (which I don't like)

> Hah, not really an issue for me. My friends are always complaining that I go on holiday for 2 weeks and come back with 2 photos

That's GOOD: it means we live in the moment and we enjoy the experience instead of wasting time and storage to take pictures we'll never look at ever again!

> Just really wanted to emphasize whatever it cost Boox to add a camera was completely wasted.

I could see a usecase for QR codes or for translation, but if it can't even do that I'd rather have the slick and flush back like on my Mooan

I have the first Palma and like it. I _do not_ trust the OS. It's really not clear to me what is actually upgraded in the 2: it has the same specs, screen, buttons (and presumably frame). The CPU on the 1 is _slow_ but not so slow that it's unusable.

At the bottom of article there is a comparison table. Palma 2 has:

* Upgraded Octa-core CPU

* Fingerprint Lock

* Android 13

So it's a very marginal improvement. Got it. I'd recommend just buying the first one for cheaper.

I’ve had a Palma 2 for a few months now. Looks like I have around 30 hours reading on it so far. Literally on use it as a reading device. Sadly it’s less frowned upon to look at a device other than reading a paper book. So I bring it to work, instead of using my phone, take a quick break and read. Very pocketable which is the selling point for me. Had a good experience with Boox so far, also have a Boox Go 10.3 which is great to read on or take notes with.

I much prefer the size and form factor of the Onyx Poke 5 to their phone-like Palma (and now Palma 2). I'd love to see an update of that with a better CPU, smaller bezel (though honestly it's already really nice and compact device, much more so than the Kindle devices etc.), and faster updating screen.

(Shame about their lack of GPL compliance, but I still use mine because I haven't found anything close.)

I owned an Onyx Boox Poke 3. It was great for about a year and half, then it started to power cycle after something as gentle as setting it down on a table (and I'm not exaggerating here). They only have a one year warranty on their devices, so after the standard "Do a factory reset", I was told there was nothing they could do. I haven't bought another ereader since.

I have never owned a Boox device, but was researching them when looking for an e-reader. The premise is good, but bear in mind that they will basically provide no updates to Android versions once the device is released.

If using an internet-disconnected device, this might be fine, but this seems sketchy if you want to use this for more than 1-2 years while connected to the internet (and using a browser etc).

I loved the Palma 1, still the most comfortable one hand device for reading via the Kindle app. Replaced my kindle hardware completely.

I subsequently bought their color e-ink iPad-mini sized device for manga. It’s awesome to get a native-publication-sized e-ink way to chew through tons of pages without having to fill up my bookshelves.

I am looking to fill the need for exactly this. Mind to share which device you got and which apps you use to read manga?

Bigme Hibreak Pro is currently the better option imo. Especially for those who want it to be even more phone-like

Has anyone successfully set Gboard as the input method on Palma2? I've been bothered by this. The Gboard will stay as the input method for minutes and then it auto-revert to the built-in input method.

Works for me, I've been using Gboard since I got it. Is it selected under Settings -> More Settings -> Language and Input -> Current?

This is part of the problem: Gboard often do not appear as a selectable input method.

And clearly I'm not the only one impacted, e.g. https://old.reddit.com/r/Onyx_Boox/comments/1hoh143/gboard_w...

I often need to open Gboard app, and it'll present the "step 2" of the first run experience when it's installed by asking me to select an input method, at that time Gboard would show up as one of the installed input methods.

All I remember is that I had switched to the AOSP keyboard because the Onyx one was really bad, then someone who uses Android more told me I should try GBoard so I did that. Don't remember having to do anything special for setup so the bug must not have affected me. Hope you find a fix.

How long before someone brings back the Yotaphone. We're in the era where midrange phones cost asmuch as Yota2. Foldable with full oled interior and eink exterior would be chefs kiss.

Onyx is a questionable company, but their devices are pretty solid. If this was actually a phone it‘d be multiple times as useful.

How's this compare with the Moaan InkPalm Plus? Which is over $100 cheaper

I bought the InkPalm a while back, and the Palma recently. (Note: I have a "thing" when it comes to e-Ink devices and so tend to just pull the trigger on new interesting ones when they come out.)

They're superficially similar, but the InkPalm feels like a very limited device by comparison. No Play Store, slower refresh, much older Android build, and a mostly-Chinese localized UI with partial English translation.

If you really just need a basic e-reader that can handle MOBI and ePub files and are willing to put up with a somewhat frustrating experience, the InkPalm is fine. OTOH, if you spend a lot of time reading long-form text but also want to occasionally run other apps -- Termux in particular is a pretty great tool to have on a small e-Ink device when paired with a small BT keyboard -- the Palma is meaningfully better.

I prefer the Moaan because it's lighter and doesn't have a camera.

I got it to read books, but now I'm using it to listen to music and take notes: I like the minimalistic experience, with no temptations to go online.

Does it have an SDK? Can I add my own features?

Their devices run Android so you can put whatever APKs you want on there, provided the UI is reasonably e-ink friendly. See my other comment about their business practices though.

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