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Comment by wpm | Hacker News Reader

Every ISP should be required upon request to provide the necessary hardware to provide a single IP address on a single copper cable. If some dumb bozo wants to get the ISP deluxe package of gateway/router/DNS sniffer/shit-tier WiFi AP all rolled into one box, fine. The opt out should be as simple as “I have my own equipment, I understand that any support call with you will stop after a public IP is found to be working on premise, now get the hell out of my way thank you”

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> If some dumb bozo wants to get the ISP deluxe package of gateway/router/DNS sniffer/shit-tier WiFi AP all rolled into one box, fine.

Recognize that nearly everybody is a “dumb bozo”. Most people do not want to manage a home network.

Even people that know how to manage a network may not want to manage their home network.

Providing my own hardware does not equal "manage my own network".

It usually does mean "my network works better".

The normal Comcast plans do let you do that, this is some weird special plan. You can hook up a standard DOCSIS modem and then DHCP lease an IP.

There are a lot of technically-proficient people who refuse to do this anymore. I guess it is a non-zero amount of work, but it really, really isn't that much. The direction we're headed in is pretty obvious: some day, sooner rather than later, the era of customers being able to use their own cable modems for DOCSIS internet will slowly end, as the people who bother become more and more in the minority.

This was the norm in Germany for a while. Then we got a law ("Routerfreiheit") that forces ISPs to allow you to use and modem/router you want. Before that you couldn't do it with DOCSIS, but it kinda worked with DSL, if you could somehow get the PPPoE credentials.

Nowadays they have to provide PPPoE and voip credentials, and cable providers need to provide a service where you give them the Mac of your own modem and then it gets tied to your contract.

Cox also lets you do this, although they'll straight up lie to you on the phone. The rep very confidently told me I could not use my own equipment, and was required to use theirs, despite their website claiming otherwise.

The customer support reps might just be poorly trained (yet confident), and not lying. Calling it "lying" requires there to be an intent to deceive.

I mean, "sales Rep informing you that you must choose the expensive recurring payment" sounds like a perfectly honest situation. That kind of person would never have a very direct financial incentive to lie, surely.

In France there's a long (as evidenced by the phpbb forum) active community of people doing that, the keyword is "box† bypass"

https://lafibre.info/routeurs/ (see "remplacer XXX par un routeur")

It's somewhat easy if you know network stuff (DNS, DHCP options, CIDR, routing, prefix delegation, etc...); if you somewhat know about those and can navigate some docs the hardest part is figuring out what the ISP expects in terms of magic bits so that it decides to:

a) hand you out v4 address (DHCP) / v6 prefix (RS)

b) allow routing (notably for v6 prefix, sometimes /64 may work OOTB but getting the /48 or /52 you're supposed to have doesn't route without proper RS DHCPv6 options)

c) unlock throttling (some throttle packets unless magic bits are sent in a specific way)

Well; that, and having the proper hardware (e.g obtaining an off-the-shelf 10-GPON SPF module compatible with what your ISP provides might range from very pricey to unobtainium). I'm lucky because my ISP chose a split ONT/router strategy and I just have to plug my own router in the GPON ONT over Ethernet.

† an ISP-provided router is just called a "box" - from "set-top box" - commercial names being "box" concatenated with the ISP initial or name: Bbox, freebox, livebox, neufbox/box SFR

It's even better in Italy. There's a law called Modem Libero (Free Modem) [1], thanks to that every ISP must give you all the connection parameters (for free) so you can install your own modem.

P.S. thanks, now I know why Iliad (Free in Italy is called Iliad) names their router "Iliadbox" :) that naming is not common in Italy

[1] https://www.dday.it/redazione/51863/modem-libero-e-ftth-tutt...

The answer to this is government regulation. Here in Germany, ever since 2016 we have the "Routerfreiheit" codified in law [1] - despite numerous attempts from wannabe crap-peddlers and cheapskates over the years, it still stands strong. Just this year, it was confirmed again, that the freedom to choose your router even applies to GPON [2].

ISPs here are required by law to state the technological standards they use, and consumers can request the required authentication data (for DSL PPPoE) or, in the case of hardware-based authentication with MAC addresses (for DOCSIS), submit these to the provider.

In practice most will rent from their ISP, but the competition is so strong that cheap crap routers are rare, usually ISPs make a point in advertising customers will get an AVM FritzBox - the ultimate market leader for good reasons.

[1] https://www.bmwk.de/Redaktion/DE/Artikel/Digitale-Welt/freie...

[2] https://www.teltarif.de/bnetza-glasfaser-routerfreiheit-netz...

That is why I stick with my ISP[1] even tough they are a bit more expensive (CHF 64.75 per month is still very cheap) than others. I have an OTO (Optical Termination Outlet) port with 25gbits in both directions and nothing else. No GNAT and no other bullshit.

They have a "nerdmode" switch on their website.

[1] https://www.init7.net/de/internet/fiber7/

What bandwidth are you allowed? I presume it's not 25 gbps. For reference, I pay 15 EUR for something like 500 mbps.

Their Terms of Use specify:

> Fair Use Policy The Internet subscriptions for private customers are intended for normal personal use. Init7 reserves the right to temporarily or permanently restrict or discontinue the provision of services for connections whose data volume exceeds 0.5 petabyte (500 terabytes) in a period of 4 weeks, or to take another suitable measure.

So that would be full blast for over 40 hours...

Wow.

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